Qualcomm is working on Snapdragon 850 chipset for Windows computers
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- Moj
- a3m
- 10 Jun 2018
Kangal, 05 Jun 2018Well, let's just start by comparing them:
Intel (6th gen... morewhat you said was good and really easy to understand for normal and not tech guys BUT there is a huge problem: even by re-coding from scratch it is impossible to gain 2X performance let alone 4X~8X!
even heavily modified codes(like what i do with gentoo and ARCH) wont give that much improvement in performance.
well i guess the QSD's should focus on power efficiency which would be key selling point!
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- Kangal
- uCX
- 05 Jun 2018
Anonymous, 01 Jun 2018I'm not Intel fan but can this be as powerful as i7?Well, let's just start by comparing them:
Intel (6th gen) Atom X7-Z8750 - 4 cores / +0 threads (x86-64, Bay Trail/Pentium-line)
Intel (8th gen) Core i7-8650U - 4 cores / +4 threads (x86-64, Coffee Lake + SMT)
Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 - 4 cores / +4 mini-cores (ARMv8-64, Cortex A73 + A53)
Qualcomm Snapdragon 845 - 4 cores / +4 mini-cores (ARMv8-64, Cortex A75 + A55)
Qualcomm Snapdragon 850 - 4 cores / +4 mini-cores (ARMv8-64, Cortex A75 + A55)
And now let's see how they behave:
Atom Z8750 - max6W - ave4W - ave 2.2GHz - max2.6GHz
i7-8650U - max15W* - ave12W - ave 2.6GHz - max4.2GHz
QSD 835 - max6W - ave4W - ave 2.3GHz - max 2.4GHz
QSD 845 - max6W - ave5W - ave 2.5GHz - max 2.8GHz
QSD 850 - max8W - ave6W - ave 2.7GHz - max 3.0GHz
So we can see the new QSD 850 SoC is about the same size as the Intel CPU, has roughly the same lithography, the same core counts, and the same frequency. However, the Intel chip uses ~x2.0 more power on average. In terms of IPC the ARM chip is slightly superior "in-theory" but in practice it really depends on the thermals, the Windows Kernel, OS, Drivers, and the Application. So far I've noticed the QSD 835 laptops performing between ~x1.8 - x8.0 slower than the Intel chips on benchmarks. So at-best the QSD 835 laptops barely matches/beats the Intel laptops on Efficiency, and at-worst its a complete joke. This is looking at reputable benchmarks like CineBench, PCMark, 3DMark, Handbrake, Basemark.
However, that's the QSD 835 and the QSD 850 promises better performance. Overall it should be 15%-30% faster hardware wise. However, that still doesn't change the results. So?
Well, the only way the QSD 850 Laptops can improve against Intel Laptops is if Microsoft improves from the software front. There's rumours saying to expect a "doubling of performance", so if that is true, then the performance difference should be between ~x0.9 - x4.0 meaning in very rare instances the Qualcomm chipset could be slightly faster at HALF the power draw... but in majority of cases they should be four times slower at half the power draw. Or in layman's terms, Intel's still at x2 efficiency of Qualcomm.
My Personal Take: Qualcomm should've sold these QSD 835/850 chips at the usual US$50 price-tag to OEMs. And we could've had affordable Windows in form-factors like a Note4, GPD Win2, iPad mini, and Razer Gaming Tablet....alongside Netbooks, Chromebooks, and Ultrabooks. Swing and Miss; both of you Qualcomm and Microsoft it seems only AMD is doing the heavy-lifting when it comes to competition lately.
*configurable to 25W for Large, Thick, Heavy Gaming Laptops
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- leledumbo
- tx4
- 03 Jun 2018
Qwerty2018, 02 Jun 2018It would face the same fate as Intel Atom for smartphone, n... moreI don't care about Windows, I was talking about Linux from the start. Even so, if only x86 and ARM (still Linux, though, Windows is no longer a sexy target), it's easy enough for me to write single codebase apps for both.
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- Moj
- a3p
- 02 Jun 2018
leledumbo, 01 Jun 2018If I can get my hands on one of these laptops, I'll test my... morewell how it perform on phone is not relevent cause it is not the same os(did you ever see a ohone with one of linuxs)?(the best i can point was N900 which i have alarm on it (Arch for N900) and performance is not that grate.)
It all is about how efficiant your code is on artichecture that it beeing used. if microsoft manage to build well coded OS (personaly not mind if there be a spectial verson for ARM) every things would be ok. given that ARM have problem in CISC and mostly realyed on SISC which will be a realy hard for dev to do so.
BTW android kernel is not completly like linux kernel and huge diffrence on userland need to get in considration.
any way if i get one of those just would install ARCH linux on it like currently have it on my surfacd pro :)
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- Qwerty2018
- 612
- 02 Jun 2018
leledumbo, 01 Jun 2018If I can get my hands on one of these laptops, I'll test my... moreIt would face the same fate as Intel Atom for smartphone, no matter what x86 and ARM have different designation;
ARM for ultra-mobile devices, which means very small TDP and meager CPU performance, while x86 for desktop and mobile devices, which sacrifices long battery-use and high TDP, but offers significantly powerful CPU prowess
Not only that, Windows 10 on ARM will, again, face the same fate as Win 8 on ARM, as making apps working for two different architecture are nigh impossible while compiling an app to work for different architecture are inefficient in time, money, and resource.
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- leledumbo
- tx4
- 01 Jun 2018
Moj, 01 Jun 2018well no! at max it can be 1.1-1.2 X better performance tha... moreIf I can get my hands on one of these laptops, I'll test myself. I still believe it will be 2x, just like how it performs on phone. They're using the same kernel, be it Android or Linux, why should the performance be halved if the SoC is the same and the OS runs natively without any emulation layer? Doesn't make sense to me.
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- leledumbo
- tx4
- 01 Jun 2018
Anonymous, 01 Jun 2018well, the problem is still CPU. I ran Android via Anbox, an... moreI didn't say it would be on the same level as intel, I said the performance of the SoC in laptop will mirror the one on the phone, not halved. Intel will always be faster due to much higher TDP.
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- Anonymous
- 0R{
- 01 Jun 2018
Those look like fairly poor scores. Is windows really that heavy of an operating system? In comparison the Qualcomm snapdragon 845 running android will readily pass the 2300 mark for single core and the 8000 mark for multi core.
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- Moj
- 0p}
- 01 Jun 2018
Anonymous, 01 Jun 2018Acording to the result it's going to be budget laptop, Qual... morethat would be no problem.
debian and gentoo and some other distros currently support ARM.
so no big deal. it woul and shall support linux.
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- Moj
- 0p}
- 01 Jun 2018
vrvly, 01 Jun 2018Somebody know what is that larger and ultra portable thing?... morenope!
just ultra light laptops. 13.3 in and probably 4K display and 1TB HDD/SSD.
just usual stuff but really light like 600gr or even less than that.
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- Moj
- 0p}
- 01 Jun 2018
leledumbo, 01 Jun 2018It should be on the same level as the phone, meaning with 2... morewell no!
at max it can be 1.1-1.2 X better performance than windows.(believe me as Arch user)
i did test android on bear metall which was good and by my 2630qm which is 2011 CPU i get around 200K point (antutu) which currently hardly has been beaten by any phones.
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- msm5
- ixY
- 01 Jun 2018
Anonymous, 01 Jun 2018I'm not Intel fan but can this be as powerful as i7?No way not even close to i3 my friend
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- Anonymous
- 8ng
- 01 Jun 2018
leledumbo, 01 Jun 2018It should be on the same level as the phone, meaning with 2... morewell, the problem is still CPU. I ran Android via Anbox, and ran the geekbench on there. Single Core score is 5401 while S8 is at 1956. There is probably some performance lost from anbox as well (it's faster than bluestacks or virtualbox however).
Let's do some math. S7 and S8 only has 150 points of difference. The difference between my i7 and S8 is 3445 points. If every year it goes like this, in 2040 Qualcomm's most powerful CPU will be equal to 2018 Intel i7.
I don't believe Manjaro would make that much difference, but it will definitely be faster.
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- leledumbo
- tx4
- 01 Jun 2018
Anonymous, 01 Jun 2018Acording to the result it's going to be budget laptop, Qual... moreIt should be on the same level as the phone, meaning with 200MHz increase it should reach around 2500/9000 score. The problem is Windows, which is still x86 oriented. I believe if the machine gets, say, Manjaro ARM it will run twice as fast.
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- Anonymous
- 8ng
- 01 Jun 2018
Anonymous, 01 Jun 2018I'm not Intel fan but can this be as powerful as i7?literally read comment before yours, no, i7 is 5 times better than this, it's going to be Celeron-tier CPU, and with Windows 10 it's more than likely to be a nightmare
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- Anonymous
- 6XU
- 01 Jun 2018
I'm not Intel fan but can this be as powerful as i7?
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- Anonymous
- 8ng
- 01 Jun 2018
Acording to the result it's going to be budget laptop, Qualcomm CPUs are nowhere near AMD/Intel. Intel i7 8550U has 5313 single core and 16896 multi core score, at least on my laptop. Also I hope it won't be WIndows only thing, since GNU/Linux works on ARM for more than a decade, it would be stupid to ignore all that support.
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- sadh
- KiU
- 01 Jun 2018
Anonymous, 31 May 2018Great break the Intel MonopolyBy making Qualcomm monopoly both on mobile and pc