Oppo Find X2 promo video shows the advantages of Omni-Directional AF over Dual Pixel AF

10 March 2020
The Sony-made sensor features 2x2 on-chip lens, which enables it to focus on both vertical and horizontal patterns.

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  • oha
  • np$
  • 31 Jul 2023

all those valuable comments full of info.. but I cant focus on and read them carefully while Im at work.. and even if I do.. pretty difficult to understand.. maybe english or maybe too much photographic technical terms to know.. so;
might be a lame question but I wanna ask anyways, is it possible to fit a "multi-directional PDAF, Laser AF, OIS" camera features to a 6.1" phone.. or is there a phone like that ?

    • oha
    • np$
    • 21 Dec 2022

    Shanti Dope, 11 Mar 2020"PDAF" not "Dual Pixel PDAF" It is just a normal PDAF assi... moreyour talks sound like "ufo" talk to me.. i don understand a single thing..
    can you please justify me sumthin.. i'm searchin for the camera features which can do well macro ability just like samsung m51 or samsung s21 ultra..
    what feature I should look for ?
    pdaf, laser AF and OIS is enough ? these would get me the same macro capability of s21 ultra or m51 ? or should i need more features like "10 MP, f/4.9, 240mm, 1/3.24", 1.22µm, dual pixel PDAF" ?
    thnx !

      • D
      • AnonD-754814
      • 6p}
      • 11 Mar 2020

      Shui8, 11 Mar 2020What I discussed with the Anon guy are about Sony Alpha cam... moreNow we agree on something. Hybrid AF is better on cameras and DPAF is better on smartphone. But neither has that much advantage over another one.

        Shanti Dope, 11 Mar 2020"PDAF" not "Dual Pixel PDAF" It is just a normal PDAF assi... moreI did not say Dual Pixel PDAF, but I'm wrong when I mentioned CDAF. IDK but is your reply really were directed unto mine?

          AnonD-754814, 11 Mar 2020I know laser AF's limitations. It has the most limitations,... moreThe small focus area DOES NOT give laser AF an advantage in any means. It's its limitation that's just it, you can't deduce anything from it to improve AF, it just can't, in fact, most of the problems that it had is due to that limitation which is now being solved by ToF. A still image is just a 2D representation of whatever was captured as we should already know it. But with your statement:

          “The birds or other moving subjects you are referring aren't still image.”

          Tell me exactly when an AF or the AF tracking should happen and how much it is being implemented in for example, Wildlife Photography? Does the AF that registers in you head only happens as soon as you hit the shutter button? NO. AF happens as soon as you point your camera on the subject. In a photography genre that has fast moving subjects with random behavior, AF tracking on full area of the sensor is and will always be preferred and thatÂ’s where Laser-AF falls flat on its face (But still, Laser AF is outstanding right? :) ). Try tracking a fast moving subject while your zooming inon 500 to 600mm lens and youÂ’ll know what I meant.

          Taking a still image needs proper tracking of a subject BEFORE taking the shot because as you know, if your camera AF can keep up with the moving subject (worst-case), it will perform spectacularly in still subjects (remember “still subjects”). Do you get this point? Do you even get my point on my previous comment? lol

            • S
            • Shui8
            • KZK
            • 11 Mar 2020

            Shanti Dope, 11 Mar 2020Nope. It began all the way back in 2016 with the introducti... moreAs you said, what it did are just add Laser AF, which absent in my Z5, when on Honor 8 Pro already has. So its no difference than any other company at that time.

            The only revolution thing is Sony added Eye-AF on Xperia 1.

              • S
              • Shui8
              • KZK
              • 11 Mar 2020

              AnonD-754814, 10 Mar 2020I hope you can see and understand.. Human eye can't tell th... moreWhat I discussed with the Anon guy are about Sony Alpha camera. Every photographers out there knows that Sony has the best AF.

              While in smartphone, I'll say S7 takes better AF since its using Dual Pixel.

              'your love for chinese is too much'
              Nope. I talk based on my own experience, when its indeed better than all of my previous Xperia, i wont deny about it.

                • m
                • mooox
                • ucv
                • 11 Mar 2020

                Anonymous, 11 Mar 2020https://youtu.be/PkweTytXotc Xz wipes floor with s7 in d... moreHmmm I guess you win some you lose some?

                I note that the XZ's video seems interpolated. How to tell? when the camera swings, you see a sudden loss of details in the XZ as compared to the S7 edge.

                But yea, I had the S7 edge and I will agree that AF focus isn't great.

                Wonder how long will it be till we start seeing people complain about the S20 Ultra's focus problems. It will be worse for most consumers because of the shallow depth of field and the fact that the hardware is already struggling to achieve focus from what I see.

                  • m
                  • mooox
                  • ucv
                  • 11 Mar 2020

                  AnonD-909757, 10 Mar 2020I won't lie, I am far to be a camera expert. From my poi... moreNot sure about that.
                  As someone who has worked as a part-time professional photographer for about 15 years, I can tell you this:
                  Software is basically automated photoshop for your images.
                  Garbage in, garbage out.

                  What the software can do now, I was doing in photoshop about 15 years ago. I haven't done any actual comparisons, but the latest smartphone cameras now still can't match image quality from dSLRs from 15 years ago.

                    Anonymous, 11 Mar 2020https://youtu.be/PkweTytXotc Xz wipes floor with s7 in d... moreAs much as I adore Xperia cameras, the X Performance's focusing wasn't entirely the fastest either. That truly belongs to the S7/S7 Edge, but only when the lighting situation is good to perfect. As soon as the lights go down, Sony's triple sensing technology comes into play and beats any other smartphones during its time. So I'd say the best overall focusing system belongs to the Xperia XZ that time, followed by the S7/S7 Edge, then the X Performance in third.

                      • D
                      • AnonD-754814
                      • 6p}
                      • 11 Mar 2020

                      Anonymous, 11 Mar 2020https://youtu.be/PkweTytXotc Xz wipes floor with s7 in d... moreI guess he said the same.

                        • D
                        • AnonD-754814
                        • 6p}
                        • 11 Mar 2020

                        DroidBoye, 11 Mar 2020Laser AF is not better for still image in fact, it has othe... moreI know laser AF's limitations. It has the most limitations, I guess less than Contrast AF though.
                        The small focus area you are talking about is also it's strong point. This specific focus gives the sensor to capture more detail. This is why I said It's a better option for still image.
                        And I guess I don't have to mention how good it is in low light.
                        Overall you are getting any type of focus implemented on the sensor anyway. It doesn't have to be Sony's hybrid AF to be the best.
                        The birds or other moving subjects you are referring aren't still image. Why don't you read the review and see how these are differentiated.
                        https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/samsung-nx1

                          • ?
                          • Anonymous
                          • LQu
                          • 11 Mar 2020

                          Shanti Dope, 11 Mar 2020Nope. It began all the way back in 2016 with the introducti... morehttps://youtu.be/PkweTytXotc

                          Xz wipes floor with s7 in daylight.
                          Channel belongs to photographer.

                          X Performance was rated the fastest AF from 2016.

                            Shui8, 10 Mar 2020Theres no question about that. All professional photogra... moreNope. It began all the way back in 2016 with the introduction of the Xperia XZ and its triple sensing technology. Well, technically they just matched the IMX300's 2/3 sensor PDAF coverage with Laser AF, which made it focus much better than previous iterations, and it was beating the S7 Edge (in overall focusing assessment) in various scenarios. (S7 Edge is faster when the light is favorable, but as soon as the lights go down, Sony's triple sensing technology starts to shine, with low light focusing nailed almost every single time while Samsung struggles a bit there).

                              DroidBoye, 10 Mar 2020S20 Ultra's HM1 sensor still has PDAF and CDAF so I would n... more"PDAF" not "Dual Pixel PDAF"
                              It is just a normal PDAF assisted with an extra software-based focusing system, but the burden was put entirely on the ToF sensor that, admittedly, just isn't good enough to match the speed and accuracy of the good old Dual Pixel PDAF.
                              Technically it's about the resolution as well, since it would be costlier to have 2/3 of the sensor's coverage area to be set as focusing agents, and it would take a very complex machine to do that since they'd need to have dual photo diodes to enable them. The rest of what you've said is true though.

                                Shui8, 10 Mar 2020A details explanation here. - https://m.gsmarena.com/huawe... moreToF sensor is literally a Laser AF, but it has its own dedicated sensor to get a better idea of the scenario in the frame, and be able to focus much faster and more accurately.

                                  Whackcar, 10 Mar 2020It seems i have to explain all my comments in detail... ... morePerhaps one of the main reason for that is because in videos, the sensor continuously captures a number of frames per second (30fps, 60fps, 120fps whatsoever), and so the pixels cannot keep up with the focus at those rates since they cannot capture multiple frames and re-calculate focus at the same time efficiently.
                                  I remember back then when the S7 Edge came out and one of its main problems in camera is its focusing abilities in 1080p@60fps, where sometimes it would literally just refuse to focus properly. Now I'm glad it has been fixed and polished, but then now comes Samsung at it again with the S20 Ultra and its turtle slow focusing speed on the main camera.

                                    AnonD-754814, 10 Mar 2020You clearly lack knowledge on this topic. Laser autofocus... moreLaser AF is not better for still image in fact, it has other problem too. Laser has very specific point on the frame that needs to hit the subject for it to be effective (at this point, you should already know what a laser is). Dual-pixel AF works on the whole frame of the sensor. Sony's hybrid af is also better because it's pdaf points is mostly distributed on the whole frame. Let me reiterate that you are talking "still image" here just to refresh your mind. That includes effectivity of tracking a moving subject on the whole frame of the sensor. If you're doing sports or catching a bird diving the lake at a distance using 200 to 500mm zoom, would you think you track those subjects using laser AF?

                                    You seem to have overblown what Laser AF is, you don't even consider it's own limitations. I've coded a lot of sensors in the past and lasers have their own specific limitations. Capturing a still image does not always mean that you have a still subject. Know the difference if you claim that you are an expert on this matter.

                                      • ?
                                      • Anonymous
                                      • LQu
                                      • 10 Mar 2020

                                      The main point is:

                                      Sony brings this kind of tech, while Samsung sensors just get bigger and do binning.
                                      There is a huge difference between the capabilities of Sony Imaging x Samsung Imaging.

                                      Some people here is wrong. There is difference between an Exmor x Isocell when it comes to performance. Otherwise companies would turn to Samsung instead since Exmor is more expensive.



                                        • D
                                        • AnonD-909757
                                        • 0JM
                                        • 10 Mar 2020

                                        AnonD-754814, 10 Mar 2020Initial debate was on Sony's hybrid AF vs Dual pixel AF. Pe... moreI won't lie, I am far to be a camera expert.

                                        From my point of view it depend on how it is implemented, and since on Smartphone the software part is as important as the sensor itself, it all can change quickly from two smartphone with the same sensor.
                                        The Omni Directional Autofocus is clearly better than the DPAF, and I've read that it could also benefit a lot for cameras.
                                        I'd say, base on pure deduction, that ToF sensors are a great addition to smartphone, not only because it allow the rendering algorithm to properly output an image with the proper focus, exposition, background noise compensation etc, but also as it give a good measurement to the sensor to know which distance it must focus on, of course laser autofocus have a range limit, but within this range, probably around Portrait is ideal, I guess they are only improving the autofocus quality, pixel based autofocus try to guess what it see to make sure it is in focus while ToF give a precise distance at which it must lock on providing the subject is where the ToF is aimed at.
                                        So I guess for photography, both Smartphone and Camera can take advantage of the additional sensor, which one have the greatest benefit from adding it, well that's where my knowledge limit of photography prevent me from extrapolating, it would only be speculation at this point...
                                        I can imagine that Camera mainly rely on the sensor itself rather than computing, meaning the ToF sensor add a lot in term of autofocus, while on Smartphone where a lot of computation is done, the signal processing allow a really good autofocus but the ToF improve it a lot.
                                        But I guess in video where the subject isn't always in the center and where object closer than the subject can pass in front, the ToF sensor reach its limit, but combined with a smart AI algorithm which can exclude false ToF reading (such as avoiding to lock on a single little object passing in front of the camera while the main image is the background) a ToF sensor can also add a big benefit in video too.

                                        I think in both cases (Camera or Smartphone) the best sensor would be ODAF with ToF and a good AI rejection algorithm of accidental in champ objects passing in the ToF aim.

                                        Feel free to correct and explain me, as I said, I don't know that much and this is only pure deduction with incomplete data.

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