Poco F2 Pro undergoes durability test, the pop-up selfie camera takes a beating
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- SNB
- nEi
- 24 Aug 2020
Anybody had an issue with the pop up camera recently. Bought a new phone and within few weeks of using it. The front camera has an issue. It says cannot calibrate.
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- AnonD-731363
- SH3
- 09 Jun 2020
AnonD-937503, 09 Jun 2020Not a fan of this guy but he proves my point:
https://www.... moreMan but redmi 6 is old.
Same durability test on a Redmi 8 or 9 will not work.
By the way if pressure is your problem give even the CAT61 to Mariusz Pudzianovsi for example for durability i mean bend test and i can honestly say the phone will die in less than 5 seconds.
And we speak about CAT61 which should be one of toughtest phones ever made.
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- AnonD-937503
- 0FH
- 09 Jun 2020
AnonD-731363, 04 Jun 2020Well i am not that sure about.
But nowdays even the low x... moreNot a fan of this guy but he proves my point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttJb8CT6IM
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- AnonD-731363
- SH3
- 04 Jun 2020
AnonD-937503, 04 Jun 2020When it comes to entry-level phones, Samsung, Huawei and Xi... moreWell i am not that sure about.
But nowdays even the low xiaomi is great.
I could not as you said the same about xiaomi phones from 2015 or older.
Same goes for many other phones like Y3 series from Hauwei or Y5 series.
And J series from Samsung i mean J1, J3 from years 2015 and 2016.
But nowdays even the M series of Samsung are very solid. Xiaomi 8A or 9 series are really solid.
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- JayrBars
- t7%
- 04 Jun 2020
LilPhone, 04 Jun 2020It usually cancels out IP rating. You wouldn't use a phone ... moreAre you really going to use your phone under the rain? How many accidents like phones falling in a toilet or sink happened?
But yes, i agree with you with the bezels thing. I missed those since ive been using my mi9t for almost a year now. I appreciate the pop-up cam, but i dont use it everyday. I just love the full screen experience of mi9t. I think im going to pass pocof2pro or k30pro this year because i got a samsung a71 for free, but if they make another phone with pop-up cam next year, thats what im getting.
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- AnonD-937503
- 0FH
- 04 Jun 2020
AnonD-731363, 04 Jun 2020Well xiaomi nowdays is equal in Quality than any other phon... moreWhen it comes to entry-level phones, Samsung, Huawei and Xiaomi really cut corners on build quality. Samsung's A20s is a lot more rigid than the A20. Xiaomi are the same, the Redmi 6 isn't very rigid but the 6A is.
- R
- RN
- vgN
- 04 Jun 2020
LilPhone, 04 Jun 2020It usually cancels out IP rating. You wouldn't use a phone ... moreI'm okay with that little top bezels too rather than notch or punch hole, but it seems Sony is the only that brave to release a phone with that kind of design (oh, and Apple with its SE 2020), but Sony is a lil bit overprice compared to it's competitors.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 04 Jun 2020
LilPhone, 04 Jun 2020It usually cancels out IP rating. You wouldn't use a phone ... moreTL;DR :
IP rating is actually almost useless or can even be negative, and pop up camera are already water resistant enough to EASILY survive a fall inside water.
You can prefer bezel over pop up, its your choice, but I can't just lets you spread back another of those busted myths about the pop up...
But first, lets talk about what is actually a "pop up" camera on Smartphones.
LONG ANSWER :
There are multiple moving systems, manually or motorized.
*There is the "real" pop up, as seen in the Poco F2 Pro that host a single camera up to the larger one in the Vivo V17 Pro with two cameras...
Those are clearly defined as a "module" which is inside the body of the phone and lift up, all of them are motorized.
*There is the slider as in the Xiaomi Mi Mix 3 or the Honor Magic 2.
Those are clearly defined as the phone being in two part which slide one against the other, all of them are manually operated.
*Then there is the hybrid, like the Oppo Find X or the Samsung Galaxy A80, even if the camera in the A80 flip, the structure and mechanism is the same as in the Find X.
Those are clearly defined as a part of the body of the phone who move, and they are all motorized.
*And finally there is the flip camera, I think there is only two of them, the Asus Zenfone 6 and the Honor 7i.
Those are clearly defined as a "module" who rotate 180° to face from back to front, the Zenfone 6 is motorized while the 7i is manual.
While the pop up earn its name as the module is poping up from the phone body, the slider should be called either "slide up" or simply "slider", but because of the hybrid it should only be called "slider", the hybrid obviously should be called "slide up" and the flip either "flip up" or "flip" camera.
While the slider have really low water tolerance as the whole phone is basically in two distinct pieces, it can theoretically be made water resistant in some ways, but it would be expensive and hard to make.
The hybrid slide up can be made water resistant if the module is not a part of the body itself but a "cover" acting like a part of the body, meaning being physically separated, though this system have its drawbacks, like its size and that it can be tricky to make it water resistant with a simple design, it is still a nice solution.
Both pop up and flip up camera can be made 100% water resistant, or even waterproof, and with minimum efforts or design complexity, but more importantly, they ALREADY ARE water resistant enough to survive short immersion.
So the pop up does NOT have issue with water as long as it doesn't stay too long under water.
Here are videos showing its capabilities :
https://youtu.be/MZm1hVXdtvY?t=275
https://youtu.be/-jtJ1KvLpU8?t=340
https://youtu.be/MXgB8b8Ndfo
https://youtu.be/z8AdxtkkQDo
https://youtu.be/ampObiAMtko?t=210
https://youtu.be/XHsEqCK35Hg
https://youtu.be/nNjvdOSDvk8
https://youtu.be/4WKUPBqrPKk
And I go and on and on again with more and more video, and I am confident enough about the pop up ability to withstand moderate water immersion that I didn't even checked the full video (result part) for some that I didn't knew yet.
The phone clearly show it is able to survive easily the scenario you gave as exemples.
Now you see what I meant about peoples spreading old busted myths about the pop up ?
You literally unknowingly did.
________________________
Now lets talk about IP rating.
*First, IP rating is NOT water proof, it is water resistance, that's a big difference.
*Second, it cost a lot, literally it cost MILLIONS to certify a device IPxx, cost which will obviously reflect on the selling cost.
*Third, IP rating is just checking a certain amount of random devices taken from the production line to check that the brand didn't send a purposefully made one, but it only guarantee that 0.0something percent of the phone are able to survive water in their test.
*Fourth, lets talk about said test, it is in a controlled environment, using clean water, did once and always the same conditions.
So you have NO GUARANTEE at all that you will get a phone that CAN survive the same test, and even if it did, there is NO guarantee at all that the conditions your phone get exposed to water will be kind enough to not kill the device, you can get a defective unit ot have something that damaged the seals, because don't forget all those tests are made on NEW phones, what you do with your phone could potentially make it unable to withstand water for more than few minutes...
And even there, the test does not guarantee you that you can do it everyday, it is merely an indication that your phone COULD survive if you do it once, anything else is just bonus.
*Fifth, even with IP rating, no brand cover water damage, meaning, you, with the phone you are tricked into thinking it can operate as much as you want underwater, can kill it and you'll be totally unable to complain about it, if IP rating was so secure, at least one brand would give you water damage warranty on at least one IP68 rated phone, the fact that there are none is a really big red flag here.
So IPxx rating literally doesn't give you any kind of proof that a phone having it will be better than a phone with a pop up who doesn't have it.
Electromagnetic pop up camera module could be IP68 rated or even waterproof rated, but even there it would be a waste of money.
So, what you need ? A phone that pretend to be a submarine while it actually can be a regular phone, or just a phone that proved in real life to be able to survive easily sink/toilet drop and rain exposure ?
Also, would you prefer an IP rated phone without water damage covered or one without IP rating but water damage covered by warranty ?
See, IP rating is basically useless, it is more an illusion than something really useful for a phone, the general rule for phone is to keep them away from water, even with IP68 rating, depending on the phone, rain can be totally ignored, but as long as the phone proved to survive water drop test, there isn't much more requirements.
And if you someone really needed to film underwater, even if you phone have an IP68 rating, I will strongly advise you to use a purposefully made waterproof case or bag for that !
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 04 Jun 2020
kiasunkiasi, 04 Jun 2020nah, it will only becoming the new trend when Apple "invent... moreThankfully some techs spread without the need of Apple to make it, like the Underdisplay fingerprint scanner.
Also, Apple is rumored to launch the iPhone 2020 with both the 3D facial recognition in its notch AND an underdisplay fingerprint scanner, maybe even an ultrasonic one.
So already it would be a great thing if Apple did influence Android brand to take "BOTH biometrics" approach rather than "one or the other", and ultrasonic FPS being the best, it might also give good influence.
And for fulldisplay sake while keeping both biometrics, for their next (after the 2020 one) flagship, Apple might either go underdisplay sensors (which would be a bad idea, underdisplay camera will surely be an epic fail), or use a pop up.
But even without Apple, now that the myths are debunked for almost everyone, more peoples than ever want pop ups, so who know !
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- LilPhone
- xZI
- 04 Jun 2020
AnonD-909757, 04 Jun 2020*In the early days we worried that such designs might be fr... moreIt usually cancels out IP rating. You wouldn't use a phone like that under the rain or accidentally drop it in the sink or toilet. I prefer a thin upper bezel like the Samsung Note 9 (which looked very good).
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- AnonD-731363
- SH3
- 04 Jun 2020
Well xiaomi nowdays is equal in Quality than any other phone brand apart the Vertu. he only top quality brand which really exist. Others are at 90-95% or less.
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- kiasunkiasi
- XNB
- 04 Jun 2020
AnonD-909757, 04 Jun 2020*In the early days we worried that such designs might be fr... morenah, it will only becoming the new trend when Apple "invents" pop up front camera mechanism
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 04 Jun 2020
*In the early days we worried that such designs might be fragile.*
That's a pleasant sentence to hear, in the early days it was mostly news websites who spread concerns about the pop up camera and peoples just repeating what they did read.
It was mainly speech about wear, fragility, water resistance, dust, mobile parts that is supposedly a goal to remove them?, added point of failure, etc etc...
Nowadays all those myths are totally busted, with pop up camera having proven to last since the first model released almost (at a single month close) 2 years ago and yet almost no report of failure to be found, proving their durability and how tough they are.
I never heard of anyone complaining about water or dust related issues, in fact multiple video proved they are more than water resistant enough to survive a way longer immersion than any realistic scenario would give and show no water damages.
With periscope telephoto becoming increasingly popular and gimbal camera to be the next thing, I don't think we can say the goal ever was to reduce moving parts, someone with no knowledge about physic or even common sense about how mechanical thing are actually really strong and electronic not being eternal might have say this thing once and this did spread as if it was a real goal the industry was really into...
And well, failure point...Just today, less than 2 hours ago, my phone slip out of my pocket and hit the ground, mind you it was like 10cm above the ground, well my screen protector did took damage, maybe with my case the display itself wouldn't have been damaged had I not a screen protector, but few month ago, it felt out of my pocket (yes again, I hate my pant's ridiculously small pockets) in the car and fall, screen first, on the seat's rail, had I not a screen protector, my OnePlus 6t would have been dead by now !
*SPOILER AHEAD*
Yet, in this video we can see that despite smashing the pop up head first into a hard table with more strength than any fall would even result in, the pop up only suffer a condition where it could darn self fix itself with enough patience, no other components is able to do that, certainly not the display, battery or chips which aren't moving parts...
JerryRigEverything did say himself that those mechanism are sturdy, which is also what I constantly did told peoples for months, this is the same mechanism as in a CD/DVD/Blu Ray reader which can last for decades, except that they have a metal on plastic while pop up have metal on metal, if both are steel they have low friction too.
*SPOILER END*
So yeah, in short, we clearly can't say that the pop up is fragile or all that, it is clearly THE best solution for front camera, sadly some peoples still fear those busted myths...
And keep in mind that this is the FIRST generation of pop up we talk about, not much changed since then, the only "upgrade" we ever saw is the recent Honor X10 who have a "more durable" pop up system...
As I often say, the pop up is clearly destined to be upgraded with an electromagnetic actuation system, this mean the pop up would be a totally independent closed piece with only a cable for data and power or even just contact pins, it will be housed inside a totally sealed compartment that except the cable pass-through or pins won't allow anything to get inside the phone, it would have magnets on both parts and the phone itself would have some small coils, so depending on the magnetic field polarity, it will attract up or down the pop up which will then stay in place simply because of the magnets.
This mean, whatever strength you put on it, once you reach past the magnet holding strength, it will retract without any resistance, it will also retract and open lightning fast, but if it hit something it doesn't matter as there isn't any physical piece forcing it, it will just stop.
And the beauty in this, not only it will take less internal space, but also it would be cheaper while being faster, near 100% reliable and almost impossible to break by forcing against it.
The only "drawback" would be that the magnets will eventually loose their polarity, but this can take a century depending on the conditions, so this isn't the biggest concern we could imagine, yet this is probably the only one...
So yeah, now that peoples are educated about pop up and they know that they are a great solution, we might see a second wave of phone with pop up camera coming, this time, notches and punch holes being more and more disliked, they might become a trending thing, clearly not a market invasive one, but they could (and I hope they do) be seen in many phones !
And the bonus is that they allow for privacy, except a second display on the back, no other options (as there are no phone without selfie camera and no option to compensate for this) offer this !
So lets hope pop up camera popularity rise !