Oppo to hold a photography-related event next week
- ?
- Anonymous
- U@5
- 15 Aug 2021
AnonD-909757, 15 Aug 2021Liquid lenses are already a thing :
https://www.gsmarena.c... moreWow it's great hopefully samsung or sony adopt it soon, it's so loong we havent seen any camera breakthrough techniques apart from image processing.
Though image processing is fundamental for great picture.
Until Samsung or sony the two largest sensor manufacturers make it, nobody in phone industry will.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZV
- 15 Aug 2021
Anonymous, 15 Aug 2021Some shape shifting liquid lens will do the trick hope Sams... moreLiquid lenses are already a thing :
https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomis_first_foldable_is_the_mi_mix_fold_it_brings_the_first_liquid_lens_with_330x_magnification-news-48438.php
For the moment it is only used for the focus, but it could also be used for modulating focal length.
There is also another great tech that have a lot of similarities, which is deformable mirrors, they offer more control over liquid lenses as the shape can be modulated in various ways, and since they are reflective and not refractive, it automatically eliminates most aberrations, including the two principals being spherical and chromatic.
And smartphone scaled deformable mirrors have already been made.
https://www.photonics.com/Articles/Miniature_Deformable_Mirrors_Bring_Adaptive/a21102
I prefer it over liquid lenses as it has already proved its worth, is scalable, a well mastered tech, and have more potentials than liquid lenses.
- ?
- Anonymous
- U@5
- 15 Aug 2021
AnonD-909757, 14 Aug 2021Totally possible, in fact if you only talk about from Ultra... moreSome shape shifting liquid lens will do the trick hope Samsung or Sony are working on this tech.
Changing shape of liquid soft lens when applying temperature, and then taking advantage of the varied characteristic.
Should be possible within a decade.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZV
- 14 Aug 2021
Anonymous, 14 Aug 2021I love to see all in one camera like main, wide and telepho... moreTotally possible, in fact if you only talk about from Ultra-Wide to Telephoto, most Zoom lenses on DSLR can already do that.
For info, Zoom don't mean Telephoto or magnifying an image, but it is the name of a lens that can change its focal length (in short, its magnification), so you have some which goes from Ultra-Wide to Wide, other from Wide to Telephoto, other from Ultra-Wide to Telephoto, some from Telephoto to Super Telephoto, etc.
And technically, it is what every compact camera already have.
For various reasons, many space and that sensors aren't that expensive, phone did follow the path of one camera per role, going sometime as far as having two Telephoto, one for 3x and the other for 5x for example, as they can't change their focal length to avoid loosing too much detail from cropping, they use two, though the Sony Xperia 1 Mk3 have a Telephoto who can do both 3x and 4.4x, but not getting in between though.
When multiple camera were implemented, though smartphones photography became more and more popular, it wasn't as serious as it is today, so having two good sensors was preferred over a single super powerful one.
But times changes, and having a super-duper sensor coupled with a lens system that allow everything from Ultra-Wide to Telephoto might become a thing.
And while a DSLR don't need to have a lens that can do all the big 5 (Ultra-Wide, Wide, Telephoto, Portrait & Macro) at once, as they can swap the lens, on a Smartphone it makes senses.
There are many ways to achieve this, but so far, only a handful of smartphones ever had this, and sadly, since the ignorant, regular customer think that more camera = better, they follow this trend, which is in part why we get nearly useless 2Mp sensors on most middle end and some high-end smartphones...
So possible, totally, it has in fact already been done.
One example that Anonymous Lj$ gave was the Asus Zenfone Zoom :
https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_zoom_zx550-6918.php
https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_zoom_zx551ml-7577.php
But will it be done? I have no ideas...
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- Anonymous
- vGS
- 14 Aug 2021
AnonD-909757, 14 Aug 2021Not necessarily, many other things than Smartphones require... moreI love to see all in one camera like main, wide and telephoto ,and in one camera, it is possible or not? We will see something like it in future?
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- AnonD-909757
- pZV
- 14 Aug 2021
Anonymous, 14 Aug 2021You'll won't see this because the revenues of ima... moreNot necessarily, many other things than Smartphones require sensors.
Low end and a big part of the middle end wouldn't have such a system, and for the rest, they could just sell a more expensive, more powerful sensor instead of multiple ones.
In fact, if anything, there are more profits to be made because it opens new doors without closing existing ones.
Middle range already often include the top end sensors, they just lack on secondary cameras, so even there it wouldn't cause a gap between high-middle and top, the regular high end would still sell.
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- Anonymous
- vGS
- 14 Aug 2021
CptHaddock, 14 Aug 2021This will be the death of VCM... Welcome to the new mainstr... moreWhat explain more
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- Anonymous
- nDN
- 14 Aug 2021
AnonD-909757, 13 Aug 2021Exactly, just making a single, good Zoom that go from a reg... moreYou'll won't see this because the revenues of imaging companies like Sony/samsung/omnivision will decrease.
- C
- CptHaddock
- nrp
- 14 Aug 2021
This will be the death of VCM... Welcome to the new mainstream Selfie cam with lightning fast AF, All In Focus, Re-Focus, bokeh and more! Utilizing poLight TLens!
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- Anonymous
- XBJ
- 14 Aug 2021
Anonymous, 14 Aug 2021Need new kind of battery which never discharge nor require ... moreI'm working on one
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- Anonymous
- vGS
- 14 Aug 2021
AnonD-909757, 14 Aug 2021Except that, no, it works pretty much like the Quantum Dot ... moreyes this is what I was talking about hopefully this tech replaces the CMOS entirely
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- Anonymous
- rKb
- 14 Aug 2021
Need new kind of battery which never discharge nor require charging. 🤔
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- AnonD-909757
- pZV
- 14 Aug 2021
Anonymous, 14 Aug 2021Little problem.
None of the cmos makers dominate this t... moreSamsung and Sony both do TV and their own sensors, though.
And tons of billions?
The underdisplay camera being that expensive, yeah, why not, but this?
You greatly over-estimate the difficulty here, the world "Quantum" make it seem like something near impossible to make, but it isn't that complicated.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZV
- 14 Aug 2021
Anonymous, 14 Aug 2021Zoom lens 15 - 125mm for example.
The periscope would be ... moreExcept that, with optic, you have one little trick, you can "shrink" a beams and images to make it smaller as well as the opposite, like this :
https://www.edmundoptics.eu/globalassets/knowledge-center/app-notes/lasers/laser-beam-expanders-fig-2.png
And from this, works without requiring a giant periscope, as the length required for focus, depth of field, and focal length operations are now relative to the new "beam" size.
And while Asus Zenfone Zoom had quite a long periscope indeed :
https://www.myfixguide.com/manual/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Asus-ZenFone-Zoom-Teardown-33-600x400.jpg
A large part of it is actually for the actuation mechanism (two motors) and structural components :
https://img.pconline.com.cn/images/upload/upc/tx/piebbs/1603/23/c1/19537639_1458718921089_1024x1024it.jpg
And Huawei with the P40 Pro Plus has, using multiple reflections, effectively, a longer one than Asus :
https://www.huaweicentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/huawei-p40-pro-plus-hybrid-zoom-2.jpg
The long periscope is only to achieve high focal length, for short focal length it doesn't change anything, so let's say you use both a beam focussing and don't try to push the maximum magnification too high but rather stay at a reasonable 5x, it will actually be a reasonably sized periscope.
You can also take advantage of the fact that a Telephoto to Wide Zoom will be shorter than an Ultra-Wide to Telephoto Zoom and make two periscopes, one for Wide to Telephoto, the other from Ultra-Wide to Wide, like I did here :
https://imgur.com/gallery/tIXYDCW
Note that I didn't take any thought into making it compact, it is just a simple artistic representation.
Not to mention that it would be the ONLY required camera, compared to how much space multiple cameras take in a phone like the S21 Ultra :
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MYSQub76fH8/maxresdefault.jpg
This is more than acceptable.
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- Anonymous
- Lj$
- 14 Aug 2021
AnonD-909757, 14 Aug 2021Except that, no, it works pretty much like the Quantum Dot ... moreLittle problem.
None of the cmos makers dominate this tech for sensor.
They need to invest tons of billions and takes years.
Applying this to cellphone or tv screen is surely 1000x easier than small cmos.
- ?
- Anonymous
- Lj$
- 14 Aug 2021
AnonD-909757, 13 Aug 2021Exactly, just making a single, good Zoom that go from a reg... moreZoom lens 15 - 125mm for example.
The periscope would be wider than whole phone.
Asus 24-80mm years ago has almost 2 inches width.
Whole system gets larger as you add more focal points, like for example 15/25/35/45/55/.../125mm.
Zoom lens always has larger f at the wider spot.
You cannot have like f2.0 for 15mm, but then f1.7 for 25mm , then again f2.0 for 35mm.
If you use one camera, outcome will always be better for the "UWA" position.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZV
- 14 Aug 2021
Anonymous, 13 Aug 2021Number 1 probably costs more than entire retail price of th... moreExcept that, no, it works pretty much like the Quantum Dot tech found on TVs.
Here I quote :
"Made in this way, quantum-dot photodetectors have the performance advantage of back-illuminated pixels, where nearly all the incident light reaches the detectors, without that technology's added cost and complexity."
Source :
https://spectrum.ieee.org/move-over-cmos-here-come-snapshots-by-quantum-dots
Based on the image, it could be this or liquid lens.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZV
- 13 Aug 2021
vrvly, 13 Aug 2021can only imagine something on par with aperture and zoom ch... moreExactly, just making a single, good Zoom that go from a regular Smartphone Ultra-Wide to, let's say, a 5x Telephoto, by using a folded multi-reflection periscope.
If the focus range is wide enough (infinity to a few centimeters), with variable aperture it would allow taking everything outside Fish Eyes and Super Telephoto.
This mean, normal Ultra-Wide, Wide, Telephoto, but also Portrait and Macro, all without cropping!
It would allow to use a single big and better sensor, or combine multiple smaller one to act as a bigger one, the result would be amazing!
- M
- Myragubben
- 04H
- 13 Aug 2021
I think Oppo takes advantage of the merging with OnePlus here. OnePlus told the audience about the bionic autofocusing cameramodule for selfie cameras back in march, and I think this is a step in this direction.
Therefor I think Oppo will present an AF-selfiecam with low screen- and bodyimpact. I read about this on OnePlus 9-launch-interview with Pete Lau.