Motorola Frontier and its 194MP camera leak in new renders

18 February 2022
Previous rumors suggested a 200MP Samsung ISOCELL HP1 main sensor.

Sort by:

SuuperBaka, 02 Mar 2022"To make it simple, there is a reason quad bayer is us... moreDon't want to argue for the sake of it, you can compare here, on dxo, anywhere and yourself to see that obvious difference, if you can see, that's it.

    vrvly, 02 Mar 2022To make it simple, there is a reason quad bayer is used, th... more"To make it simple, there is a reason quad bayer is used"

    Which is marketing. That's the main reason it's used. An average consumer doesn't know much about cameras, so when they see 48,64,108,200 MP on a phone, they think "wow it must be good." That's the only way to put the high resolution on a phone while keeping it thin as well.

    "Hdr, low light and less noise with more detail is not a guess, its how it perform since it got more ways and data to work with."

    The higher ur resolution, the smaller the pixels are, which means more noise. You can get the same dynamic range on a regular sensor by taking more photos. This is what the iPhone does. I don't even like iPhones, but they have the best camera software on a phone and only use 12MP.

    "Simply try xperia proI vs mate x2 vs 808 to see that difference, I wont argue that small pixel is better in colors, mainly in low light, its not, but for everything else, its way better."

    First of all, you can't compare them since the photo tool only has the N808 on the old poster, but colour accuracy is much better on the Pro-I. The thing is that you can get the same benefits by just stacking images. When it comes to high res, on a phone it wouldn't make sense because of how small the sensor is. I'm not saying high res is bad, but on a phone, it's not usable. That's why they do the binning by default.

    "As for quality, hw, 8K and lens, its all about small enough quality difference for ordinary user, hi cost difference(insane with 8K), and competition."

    Again having that 8K means nothing when you can't play it. I would rather have upgrades in other areas than have 8K video.

    "New hw from sony will not wait long for competition and noise lvls in stills now are satisfactory, so having the same noise while increasing the resolution more useful."

    I'd suggest you read what Sony released because I'd rather have that than more resolution. The advantages of QB are extremely minimal for the user and can be replicated on a regular Bayer. Again iPhones are the perfect example.

    "I went from 12mp on sony to 64mp on vivo, I got to say that pictures are now satisfactory, no matter the big pixel advantages. Which I couldn't say before."

    It depends on what vivo you went to because the sensor size is also the most important factor is image quality.

      SuuperBaka, 28 Feb 2022"Not sure what you mean first, but big pixel emulation... moreTo make it simple, there is a reason quad bayer is used, though depends on processing so you better compare huawei ai mode or vivo hi res samples. Hdr, low light and less noise with more detail is not a guess, its how it perform since it got more ways and data to work with.
      Simply try xperia proI vs mate x2 vs 808 to see that difference, I wont argue that small pixel is better in colors, mainly in low light, its not, but for everything else, its way better. Of course it depends on processing but its the way it is moving forward in phones - computational and AI photography.
      As for quality, hw, 8K and lens, its all about small enough quality difference for ordinary user, hi cost difference(insane with 8K), and competition. New hw from sony will not wait long for competition and noise lvls in stills now are satisfactory, so having the same noise while increasing the resolution more useful.
      I went from 12mp on sony to 64mp on vivo, I got to say that pictures are now satisfactory, no matter the big pixel advantages. Which I couldn't say before.

        vrvly, 27 Feb 2022Not sure what you mean first, but big pixel emulation is ab... more"Not sure what you mean first, but big pixel emulation is about getting faster hdr, less noise with more detail."

        Big pixel emulation is about grouping pixels together to try and get information from them and treat it like a big pixel.

        Getting less noise and more detail isn't only done through pixel binning.

        Also, the faster hdr can be done on regular bayer sensors, looks at Apple for example. They do a lot of image stacking as well.

        "Classic bayer wont have fast hdr, low res wont have less noise/more detail."

        Low res does actually have less noise (depending on what type of noise you're referring to), because the pixel size would be higher. Big pixels = high SNR.

        "While getting all that at low res, you got hi res option, which is not the same as standard bayer hi res, but because you use the same amount of pixels and stacking, you can get the same amount of color detail. "

        With a high res QB sensor, you have less colour detail because the information is split compared to a regular bayer sensor. You can also just stack a regular bayer as well to reduce noise.

        "Comparing to 808 is already useless as new phones got better and brighter lens, try Mate X2 ai hi res as the best example, x70pro+ is not bad too as it got also raw option."

        I agree that phones now have brighter lens, a better sensor (FSI vs BSI), and a better processor to use (single-core 1ghz vs Octacore 2.6+ ghz). The processing on that phone was way ahead of its time. You can still get photos that compete with current phones during the daytime, but not night time obviously. If a modern-day N808 was made, it would destroy anything right now.

        "If its about posting of media, most of messengers(besides viber and skype) use something similar to 800x480 kind of resolution, or 1-2mp, I'm sure you wouldn't want such camera. "

        This is what most of the use cases would be for phone cameras. Sending stuff over media which is like 5mp max, so having that 64mp, 108mp, 200mp wouldn't be necessary. 12MP would be more than enough.

        "I had 20mp camera, now 25mp one and I can say that in perfect conditions(sun backlight etc.) my 64mp from phone kicks the camera out. "

        I doubt it, a 20mp or 25mp camera (assuming FF) will beat a 64mp phone. Even in perfect lighting conditions. Also, the colour accuracy of QB sensors is something I have a problem with.

        https://i.imgur.com/hJFf5WE.png

        Look at this link. The N808 vs the Xiaomi Mi 11Ultra. The bottom image shows the blinds more accurately. It resolves a bit more detail and has no moire.

        "Also mind that when looking at croped pics or zooming in to faces etc. is better with higher res, so it matters a lot even when sharing where hi res is possible - even in 12mp, 12mp from 64mp looks better detailed."

        I can agree with this.

        "Lastly considering your sony hw comment, samsung and maybe some others are also competing now with sony for best sensor tech, but just having hw does not mean you get best results, phone photography is all about using different sensors and tricks to improve, not just hw. "

        I was referring to their new sensor tech which is something that hasn't been done so far and is really good for mobile photography. The individual pixels will have nearly double the saturation signal level and will be able to reduce the noise of images captured in a low-light environment.

        "Also some new sensor tech wont save xperias from lacking 10x zoom and 8K, which take mobile photography to new lvls compared to full size cameras which got no zooms from superwide to 10x or 8K at reasonable price"

        The zoom is fine on the Xperias imo, but then that area is subjective. 8K is definitely not that useful since most don't have the ability to play it on their devices. Also compared to full-size cameras this means absolutely nothing when they are still superior in both ways.

        The quality of full size cameras are unmatched by phones, even today.

        "I see a lot of people using phones to shoot events you normally would with full size cameras, guess why."

        Guess what? Their quality is absolute dogwater as well. There is a reason why cameras have different zoom lenses and why they're so big.

          SuuperBaka, 24 Feb 2022Again QB is just trying to emulate larger pixels when you g... moreNot sure what you mean first, but big pixel emulation is about getting faster hdr, less noise with more detail. Classic bayer wont have fast hdr, low res wont have less noise/more detail.
          While getting all that at low res, you got hi res option, which is not the same as standard bayer hi res, but because you use the same amount of pixels and stacking, you can get the same amount of color detail. Comparing to 808 is already useless as new phones got better and brighter lens, try Mate X2 ai hi res as the best example, x70pro+ is not bad too as it got also raw option.
          If its about posting of media, most of messengers(besides viber and skype) use something similar to 800x480 kind of resolution, or 1-2mp, I'm sure you wouldn't want such camera. If its about 12mp, its not mirrorless amount of detail, and 12mp is not so awesome either, I had 20mp camera, now 25mp one and I can say that in perfect conditions(sun backlight etc.) my 64mp from phone kicks the camera out. Also mind that when looking at croped pics or zooming in to faces etc. is better with higher res, so it matters a lot even when sharing where hi res is possible - even in 12mp, 12mp from 64mp looks better detailed.
          Lastly considering your sony hw comment, samsung and maybe some others are also competing now with sony for best sensor tech, but just having hw does not mean you get best results, phone photography is all about using different sensors and tricks to improve, not just hw. Also some new sensor tech wont save xperias from lacking 10x zoom and 8K, which take mobile photography to new lvls compared to full size cameras, which got no zooms from superwide to 10x or 8K at reasonable price.
          I see a lot of people using phones to shoot events you normally would with full size cameras, guess why.

            vrvly, 24 Feb 2022quad bayer is answer to bad hdr from small pixels and lag, ... moreAgain QB is just trying to emulate larger pixels when you got big pixels and a high resolution, then downsampling is the better option. You get to keep the same detail but in a smaller file.

            Look at the N808 page and see the downsamples images on there and compare them to something similar.

            With a 200MP QB, they're just gonna try to emulate an even bigger pixel size. 12MP is still extremely useful in almost everything. Most of the time when we post things on IG, Twitter, Snapchat, we don't even use the full image either. High resolution is situational and at that point, you would just go with a FF camera.

            If you look at Sony's new stacked CMOS image sensor technology with two-layer transistor pixels. This is a great use for mobile photography.

              SuuperBaka, 21 Feb 2022Hi-res with a regular Bayer I can agree with, the problem w... morequad bayer is answer to bad hdr from small pixels and lag, hi res is a bonus. With regular bayer it was not possible.... now with 200mp qb, we could get 50mp nb, who can be dissatisfied with that vs 12mp regular or 48mp quad.

                • P
                • P C M
                • 39r
                • 21 Feb 2022

                SuuperBaka, 21 Feb 2022I missed this article, now I can see them making those insa... moreThis one looks promising, specially for high ISO. They won't be much noisy and colorless like today's smartphone sensor, also individual pixels can be much smaller too, like 0.48 micron.

                  P C M, 20 Feb 2022These tech websites brag too much to feed the stupid people... moreI missed this article, now I can see them making those insane resolution sensors, but definitely not for phones.

                  I dunno if you saw the new Sony 2-Layer Transistor Pixel sensor, but that's something revolutionary for mobile photography.

                  https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/news/2021/2021121601.html

                  I just hope Sony can implement it properly on their phones.

                    vrvly, 20 Feb 2022point is hi res with some downsides still looks better than... moreHi-res with a regular Bayer I can agree with, the problem with QB is that it's basically extra work to make bigger pixels, to emulate them. An N808 or Lumia 1020 approach is something that I liked.

                    I think a good resolution is 24MP and work from there.

                      • R
                      • Rinku
                      • 56I
                      • 21 Feb 2022

                      Most brands

                        SuuperBaka, 19 Feb 2022The Lumia had a regular Bayer sensor while downsampling, no... morepoint is hi res with some downsides still looks better than low res, not going crazy with Mp but still doing at least something like 48 instead of 108mp, is still better than freeze od propagate old system of big pixel size.

                          • P
                          • P C M
                          • XSy
                          • 20 Feb 2022

                          SuuperBaka, 19 Feb 2022We'll just have to see I guess, I hope they don't... moreThese tech websites brag too much to feed the stupid people. I think this article might help you. Samsung put the high res sensor in a different section altogether.
                          Just read the article, You'll understand that more 300MP+ isn't coming to smartphones.
                          https://news.samsung.com/global/editorial-rivalling-the-human-eye-how-samsung-is-opening-up-the-possibilities-for-image-sensor-technology

                            P C M, 19 Feb 2022Samsung's goal is not to use more than 200MP sensor in... moreWe'll just have to see I guess, I hope they don't put them on a phone. Maybe we'll see them used somewhere else.

                              vrvly, 19 Feb 2022Wish Sony would bring some pixel satisfaction, I certainly ... moreThe Lumia had a regular Bayer sensor while downsampling, not the same as what they do today, so I don't think that's a good example to use.

                                • P
                                • P C M
                                • XSy
                                • 19 Feb 2022

                                SuuperBaka, 18 Feb 2022Exactly .48 is way too small to be useful. I was referring ... moreSamsung's goal is not to use more than 200MP sensor in smartphones. So, still 0.48 micron might not happen, even if it happens it might be for something else.

                                  • P
                                  • P C M
                                  • XSy
                                  • 19 Feb 2022

                                  Anonymous, 18 Feb 2022Samsung does not supply security cameras nor cars. Only mo... moreYou talk too much. You're talking about a future sensor which is not yet a thing but refusing to take the fact that samsung is doing it for the car or other thing. Both are in future.
                                  If you take their word about 300MP, 600MP sensor then why wouldn't you take their word that these sensors aren't for smartphone !!

                                    • t
                                    • talha
                                    • QBk
                                    • 19 Feb 2022

                                    Having 194 MP image size in a 1/1.5 inch sensor isso stupid. At the end of the day it will perform binning upto 12 MP and the actual pixel siz will be similar ot that of a midrange smartphone such as redmi note 11 pro. This is such a gimmick move. Expected much better from motorolla

                                      • ?
                                      • Anonymous
                                      • Dkb
                                      • 19 Feb 2022

                                      Viral

                                        Wish Sony would bring some pixel satisfaction, I certainly like stacked hi res more than low res. It's hard to go back to 1/5 the resolution, with 200mp will be ratio more crazy, that vs 12mp is 1:16.
                                        Still remember performance of lumia1020 against low res alternative(ultra pixels), or minote10 at 27mp against the rest comparing patterns and the likes, it's just a way different.
                                        What Sony does now is the same as HTC did then, wonder if they are aware...

                                          1 of 5