Qualcomm to rely on TSMC for the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 SoC, promises outstanding performance

01 December 2023
Samsung can't meet Qualcomm's standards for its next-gen SoC.

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  • 06 Dec 2023

Not Again, 01 Dec 2023"At present, TSMC's 3nm process technology produc... moreIf a so called tipster had early access to any information, you would think or hope that it would include the actual name, and that name was correct. If it is not correct then the rest is essentially made up

Qualcomm to rely on TSMC for the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 SoC, promises outstanding performance is incorrect as the source has NO prior knowledge.

Kangal posted this https://www.gsmarena.com/newscomm-60774p4.php
"History of Contemporary Snapdragon Flagships:
QC 8g3, QC 8g2, QC 8g1+, (QC 8g1), (QSD 888), QSD 870, QSD 865, QSD 860, QSD 855, QSD 845+, QSD 845, QSD 835, QSD 821, QSD 820, (QSD 810)."

O.K let's go with that

History of Contemporary Snapdragon Flagships: QQ
QC 8g3, QC 8g2, QC 8g1+, (QC 8g1), [ 4nm]

QSD 888) [5nm]
QSD 870, QSD 865, QSD 860, QSD 855, [7nm]
QSD 845+, QSD 845, [10nm]: QSD 835, [10nm]
QSD 821, QSD 820, [14nm]
(QSD 810) [20nm]

The interim / default name is wrong, the take I get from reading both stories if the article is sourced from Qualcomm it would stated as the next Flagship SoC not the QC 8G4.

The contentious statement was the 2024 Qualcomm 3nm would be called the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4.
In nanoreview and there hasn't been a Snapdragon X gen 4
In nanoreview and there hasn't been a Snapdragon X gen 4,
it is ignorance of this basic fact that he suggest S8G4

From Kangal list of contemporary Snapdragon I added process. The post stated that the move from 4nm to 3 nm would bring a change in name, as you can see Qualcomm have used a different naming standard when the process (nm) changes
Sometimes tipsters have insider information, this however is the minority, the rest are fabricated stories to generate income on X. standalone stories until the next one

A nice segue is Apple A16 Bionic 4nm to A17 Pro 3nm NOT A17 Bionic why?

    [deleted post]One suspicion I have is that Apple is involved.
    It is perhaps the strong ties that Apple has, to influence the direction that ARM is moving. Because at the end of the day Nuvia/Oryon is built on technology that is basically from the Apple Labs. Ultimately I think Qualcomm will ship their Nuvia chipsets, and will win the trial. It is in ARM's interest to have their technology at the forefront.

    Perhaps one compromise they will come to, is that Qualcomm can use it's cores, and the money exchanged is very little...BUT... then ARM also gets access to the Nuvia Cores and introduces them as the next architecture. Eg/ call it the Cortex-Z1 as a new line for servers, desktops, laptops, etc etc.

      Kangal, 02 Dec 2023My point still stands. Besides in that legal article, thes... moreSo I agree and share the analysis upto Arm losing the lawsuit, that doesn't change the events you cite after this point

      As I understand it Arm contact with Qualcomm were "subsequent ignored" after Qualcomm informed Arm their ALA Architecture Licencing Agreement was broader than Nuvia and therefore covered by its own

      Paragraph from the linked Bloomberglaw article.

      "Arm has complained publicly and in court that Qualcomm is developing and applying Nuvia technologies in breach of a now-defunct Nuvia agreement, which Arm terminated with Qualcomm’s consent. In Qualcomm’s view, they have their own ALA that is broader, giving them the right to incorporate Nuvia technology in their products."

      So like you said Arm ALA cannot be transferred

      NOT from the article Google search.

      "Qualcomm and Nuvia must stop using and destroy any Arm-based technology developed under Nuvia’s ALA, and that neither Qualcomm nor Nuvia is licensed to continue developing this technology"

      This is important as this is a remedy sought by ARM in its filing also Arm states that in May 2022 BOTH Qualcomm and NUVIA had provided assurances it was done.
      Then at some point Qualcomm adopted the ALA covers all

      The reason I take a different view is Arm still wants destruction.

      Destruction will be a last resort option IF Qualcomm were licensed it would have to pay, there is an alternative remedy. Having established that the ALA are NOT transferable, Qualcomm
      WILL have to pay for the breach and being unlicensed. as I see it quite heavily. Arm does have the upper hand. Qualcomm cannot play the poor start up held down by Arm seeing where the chips are intended to go.

      Both Nuvia and Qualcomm signed respective ALA, especially Qualcomm cannot now say it is too restrictive.

      https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/arm-qualcomm-lawsuit-could-muddle-us-chip-design-leadership

        Anonymous, 01 Dec 2023Took too long for Samsung shill defence force to come in. ... moreI'm curious what Spexidix Samsung SoC are you referring to made by Samsung?

          Anonymous, 01 Dec 2023How do I know geekbench 5 of it is 10.000 multicore? OEMs... moreThere are NO OEMs anymore in the smartphone space.

          Every phone manufacturer bra is theie phones across all markets and across all cellular providers.

          HTC was THE last OEM during the first smartphone era, making Microsoft PocketPC and PocketPC-PE phones for Vodafone and Orange and NOT using their brand. Short after their brand debut. You can easily verify this directly on this website!!

          How many others make such silly mistakes when the information ia right on the same site they posting falsehoods on?!,!

            ashrobb, 01 Dec 2023"You could say that Qualcomm just isn't convinced... moreFunny

            Qualcomm wasn't impressed with TSMC'S yields for the 8 Gen 3 because it couldn't supply- due to Apple taking up all the 1st geb 3N. Production yields.

            The fact Qualcomm is OK with the Snapdragon for Galaxy in the upcoming 8 Gen 4 to be exclusively built by Samsung's foundry may speak more about fear of Samsung catching up vs production yields!

            Remember damsung produces and ships MORE units in a year than just about any in the competing that actually USES Snapdragon chips!

            According to tho very early rumor this speaks of FEAR to me more than volume. Use your head, not your heart!

            Samsung is THE ONLY foundry that can compete outside of Taiwan or China on 4nm or 3nm !! Facts!

              Anonymous, 03 Dec 2023Say exactly that in the pixel subreddit and you'll get... moreThat's the problem with reddit. Every subreddit is basically a hivemind, everyone shares the same opinion and no one welcomes dissent.

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                • Anonymous
                • r$9
                • 03 Dec 2023

                Anonymous, 02 Dec 2023Pixel owners don't love Exynos and they know how garba... moreSay exactly that in the pixel subreddit and you'll get mobbed by fanboys. Explained my issues with the 7 pro and all they could do was praise the phone and say no issues exist

                  10k on geekbench 6 would mean Ryzen 7 5800x performance, which is 8 core 4.7ghz chip, that would absolutely insane, considering this is one of the top desktop 8 cores chips from 2020 still considered power house in 2023 :D

                    Vikass17, 02 Dec 2023No one is crying monopoly now?Whatever outcome of that legal battle Arm will lose, either short or long term, I can see why Major companies are funding Risc V.

                      Anonymous, 02 Dec 2023You, my friend, just proves Samsung fanbois are blind to factsI kind of hate Samsung.

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                        • Anonymous
                        • xjH
                        • 02 Dec 2023

                        Vikass17, 01 Dec 2023S23's 8 gen 2 were made by Samsung too. Samsung is onl... moreYou, my friend, just proves Samsung fanbois are blind to facts

                          Hemedans, 02 Dec 2023Kyro isn't full custom core, it just use Arm cores and... moreMy point still stands.
                          Besides in that legal article, these are not facts, they are allegations. Even if they are true, the decision has not been made. And if the decision was final, the added pressure from the market could turn things around (think xBone announcement versus XB1 release).

                          The thing about the ARM licenses, is that they are expensive.
                          BUT the cheapest license gets you the Stock CPU, GPU, NPU. Going one tier up let's you modify the core. And going further up means you can take the instruction set and design your own processor around it. IT IS GENIUS.
                          It makes it cheap for everyone to get into the market, curbs fragmentation, and allows the big guys with deep pockets to have the freedom to design their own custom chipset models.

                          The problem is that Qualcomm USED to be a high-paying licensee. Their Scorpion S1 CPUs were designed after the ARM11, but unfortunately found themselves competing in the market against the early Cortex-A8 chipsets. Their Scorpion S2 were designed after the Cortex-A8, and again found themselves competing against the Cortex-A9. They've been on the backfoot. But then their Krait-200 CPUs were modelled after the Cortex-A9 but were much much faster. Their Krait-300 and Krait-400 was modelled after the Cortex-A15 but were much more efficient. Their Krait-450 was basically on-par with the Cortex-A17. Then their Kyro-100 processor was designed after the big.LITTLE Cortex-A57 and Cortex-A53, but in-practice, they were much more faster and efficient. They then skipped the Cortex-A72, got rid of their custom processor engineers/division, and went with an almost off-the-shelf solution. That was since the QSD 835 until the QC 8g3 of today.

                          The Nuvia team is one that has some of the industry big names behind it. They helped design Apple's custom cores, like we saw with the A11-Bionic, and laid the groundwork for the Apple M1 Silicon. The Oryon cores come from there. This small startup was able to do venture capital in California, raise the funds, and secure themselves the necessary license for ARM Custom Cores. Qualcomm didn't. Qualcomm purchased the company, and rejected ARM's plea to purchase the necessary license (which incidentally went up in price). Qualcomm again rejected this. So ARM said Qualcomm cannot use any IP they acquired from Nuvia, and must use Stock Cores. Qualcomm said the necessary license cost was already paid to ARM by Nuvia, and Qualcomm had paid alot of money to Nuvia to cover those costs. ARM said too bad, because the contract stipulates that licensees cannot be transferred.

                          Overall, I think ARM is in the right. But they will likely lose. We will have some fantastic chips from Qualcomm initially, but soon after Qualcomm will raise their prices. The consumers will foot the bill, for that bloating profit margin. Meanwhile, losing this case will mean ARM will have to change its business model. Which means Exynos and Dimensity chipsets will get more expensive. With higher and higher costs from TSMC things will get noticeable fast. The industry will blame everyone but themselves. And it'll just be more inflation for your average jane and joe to burden. Suddenly your high-end phones (flagship killers) will go from USD $400-$550 price, upto USD $600-$700 price. Whilst your typical luxury/flagship phones move from USD $800-$999 price to a new bracket of $999-$1300 for simply the chipset update. It doesn't affect Apple, they dictate their own business model, and their licenses are secured due to being a founding member.

                          That is unless Qualcomm pays ARM some money, they get a provision/license, and they settle this privately before the trial.

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                            • Anonymous
                            • q3R
                            • 02 Dec 2023

                            Anonymous, 02 Dec 2023Just look at the pixel fanbase lmao. It's the only gro... morePixel owners don't love Exynos and they know how garbage it is but it also keeps pricing lower and because of it being Tensor, they can provide updates longer. Also, Pixel fans loved Pixel well before Tensor was even a thing.

                            When news of the Tensor switching to TSMC in 2025 came out, the Pixel subreddit blew up with high hopes they'll drop Exynos.

                              Anonymous, 02 Dec 2023Too soon to talk about gen 4. My A52 needs a good replaceme... moreAll phones are 6.7". What's so special about S 24+.

                                Hemedans, 02 Dec 2023Kyro isn't full custom core, it just use Arm cores and... moreNo one is crying monopoly now?

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                                  • 02 Dec 2023

                                  Anonymous, 01 Dec 2023Took too long for Samsung shill defence force to come in. ... moreHow can someone call it a subpar without even knowing about it. None knows actual performance data. Earlier leaks said both Samsung and TSMC have bad yeild for 3nm and the leak also said,, Samsung's yeild is just slightly better than TSMC. Samsung on higher 50s and TSMC on lower 50s

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                                    • 02 Dec 2023

                                    you have to suffer, 02 Dec 2023lol.. dream soc. you sure about that? samsung's 3nm w... moreIgnorance....
                                    I'm not giving the dream soc name...

                                      S, 02 Dec 2023Go to venture capitalists and ask for seed funds to start o... moreTsmc will raise their prices, which means the underdogs get a chance to take market share.

                                      I'm looking forward to there being more actors in the fab market. It will make it harder on tsmc, pressuring them either in development and/or prices.

                                        Kangal, 01 Dec 2023When was this? Because Qualcomm is mixing "custom&quo... moreKyro isn't full custom core, it just use Arm cores and they customize it according to Arm instructions, since sd 835 era Qualcomm used this method.

                                        This information was revealed during legal issue between Qualcomm and Arm that Arm told Oems and Chipmaker after 2024 they can't use Arm tech with other tech together in soc, Even Samsung won't be Able to Use arm cores with Amd GPU, so you either go full custom or use Cortex with Mali.

                                        It may change in future but now it's seem likely why Qualcomm is going full custom

                                        Article here
                                        https://www.semianalysis.com/p/arm-changes-business-model-oem-partners

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