Qualcomm is off the hook for now, wins its licensing dispute with ARM

22 December 2024
ARM could pursue another case in the future.

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  • ?
  • Anonymous
  • n5%
  • 28 Dec 2024

nanon, 27 Dec 2024You have it backwards. Nuvia had the expensive license, Qua... moreDoes it not make sense to you that bigger partners should pay more?

    • n
    • nanon
    • HX@
    • 27 Dec 2024

    Anonymous, 23 Dec 2024My understanding is this: Nuvia and Qualcomm each have an a... moreYou have it backwards. Nuvia had the expensive license, Qualcomm has the cheap one and ARM are suing one of their largest customers because they got pissed that they would only get the lower Qualcomm royalties. They are suing because they are greedy morons, not for any legitimate reason. They don't own Nuvias core designs, and should have no say over how someone acquiring Nuvia uses those designs.

      • ?
      • Anonymous
      • fjG
      • 26 Dec 2024

      Does Qualcomm ever loses a case

        • ?
        • Anonymous
        • 4Pf
        • 23 Dec 2024

        The Android Freak, 22 Dec 2024Huawei has done remarkable process in chipset department. T... moreThere is no doubt about that? Really? You think Qualcomm is going to stand still? Nope, they're going to keep pushing hard as well. I doubt they're on par with QC in 3 years like you claim.

          Bob, 22 Dec 2024Arm is RISC, only AMD and Intel [i think, off hand] make CI... moreYou're correct in terms of the architecture of both CPU's

          RISC-V is not isolated to the CPU - its everything in a computer and thus its architecture in terms of open source nature of the logic/architecture IN the CPU.

          SO no more licensing.
          Still RISC based yet not proprietary nor licensed.

          only 1 manufacturer thus far has built and began shipping an entire laptop built from RISC-V.

            • ?
            • Anonymous
            • Iby
            • 23 Dec 2024

            I Just Read, 23 Dec 2024First early days Arm has said it will appeal and afaik Arm... moreYou (and many others) are flat out wrong about how the American legal system operates. Rather than refute every single piece of misinformation, I'll just state the facts, after making it clear that I am not a lawyer: This case was heard in the US District Court for the District of Delaware, and not any state court. The lawyers for either side would therefore have to be members of the federal bar in the District of Delaware. ARM filed there because Qualcomm is legally incorporated as a Delaware corporation, even if it's principal place of business is San Diego, California. In the American legal system, especially in civil cases such as this one, jury verdicts are incredibly difficult to overturn, barring some sort of misconduct. The article is correct to note that we may see ARM continue to pursue claims that the jury deadlocked on, but we are unlikely to see any substantial changes to the outcome of the case. From my reading of documents, it looks as if the deadlocked charge only pertains to damages that Nuvia (now owned by Qualcomm) may own ARM, and not have any potential for license revocation.

              403 Forbidden, 23 Dec 2024> Licenses cannot be transferred pure and simple In the... moreThe word you're not factoring is CONTRACT.
              The point you make may be 100% correct however...

              Too near Xmas but to expand on my poor relative example.
              The NY attorney cannot practice law in California simply because the Californian law firm has bought it.

              Business can buy businesses providing normally there is no Monopoly or National Security issues. Arm / Qualcomm & Arm / Nuvia three (two) companies TWO ALA CONTRACTS.

              To maintain control over intellectual property Arms' contract SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS transfer of ALA either by Qualcomm or Nuvia if either were / are sold

              The jury essentially said OK NY Attorneys get your surf boards out.
              Here is what Gsmarena wrote on it.
              https://www.gsmarena.com/arm_is_dropping_qualcomms_chip_design_license-news-65037.php

              Arm has issued its 60 day termination notice which means Qualcomm if not is not already currently UNLICENSED they won't be by 31/12/2024

                I Just Read, 23 Dec 2024First early days Arm has said it will appeal and afaik Arm... more> Licenses cannot be transferred pure and simple
                In the US attorney are regulated by each State. Qualcomm could not buy a firm from one State e.g New
                York and have attorney practice law in the California if Qualcomm were located there.

                Yes, it can. Google, a company based in California, once intentionally bought Motorola Mobility, another company based in Illinois, only to take the Android licenses from Motorola.

                  • ?
                  • Anonymous
                  • 0p}
                  • 23 Dec 2024

                  DeepIn2U, 23 Dec 2024My only comment is this: You bought Guess Jeans at said ... moreMy understanding is this: Nuvia and Qualcomm each have an architectural design licence with ARM that lets them design their own custom cores based on the ARM architecture. However, because Nuvia was a mere startup, they get charged substantially less licence fees. And because Qualcomm purchased Nuvia and are using their custom core designs in their chips, ARM treats that as the same as Qualcomm designing the custom cores and wants to charge Qualcomm the higher licence fees.

                  Apple has always claimed that the former Apple engineers at Nuvia have stolen their chip designs.

                    First early days Arm has said it will appeal and afaik Arm cancellation is still in force

                    After more than nine hours of deliberations over two days, the eight-person jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on the question of whether startup Nuvia breached the terms of its license with Arm.
                    But the jury found that Qualcomm - which purchased Nuvia for $1.4 billion in 2021 - did not breach that license.
                    The jury also found that Qualcomm's chips, created using Nuvia technology and central to Qualcomm's push into the personal computer market, are properly licensed under its own agreement with Arm, clearing the way for Qualcomm to continue selling them.

                    The jury has imo gotten this completely wrong on all points it still could be reversed on appeal

                    Licenses cannot be transferred pure and simple
                    In the US attorney are regulated by each State. Qualcomm could not buy a firm from one State e.g New
                    York and have attorney practice law in the California if Qualcomm were located there.

                    Each attorney has to apply to California State bar.
                    It's not that Arm should win automatically, if Qualcomm believed Arms Contract term were excessive it should have argued that case.

                      • ?
                      • Anonymous
                      • 0p}
                      • 23 Dec 2024

                      Anonymous, 23 Dec 2024not really more like very high clocked custom cores barely ... moreYeah, this generation is very weird. Qualcomm has some strange highly clocked custom cpu cores that just manages to beat generic arm cpu cores but their custom gpu cores loses to generic arm gpu cores. Not exactly sure where Qualcomm goes from here and whether their chips can be clocked even higher. At least we know MediaTek still has room for higher clocks on their chips.

                        My only comment is this:

                        You bought Guess Jeans at said price, from retailer at different location.

                        You bought Calvin Klein jeans from same retailer same day (or different day but its in you backpack with receipt) but at adifferent sight.

                        You paid for both q dhavevalid receipts for period of purchase. Because you still had the utem of first purchase on you while buying second purchase

                        How the hell can the retailer gaurds claim you stole anything or didnt pay??? Huh does that make any sense?!

                        Both made of cotton both used the same way as intended at same and purchase no violation in term s of each licemse agreement. Sound like Donnie is getting GREEEDY!

                        OR HEAVILY pressured fron a much earlier invester n holder of licenses used EXACTLY the same way!

                        Oh whom could that be?! You mean same lead engineers that worked for a competitor before forming Nuvia, the merged with QC?


                        AAHHH YES APPLE!
                        They literary have the exact same business model yet i don't seeArm even sniffing a fart their way! Sounds like Apple is really weird about fire competition n Arm is wired other licenses which ahem SOON ENOUGH WILL be competing with a dual use case for the license. Ill bet the license has never been written to consider dt lt and mobile devices hmmmm

                          Anonymous, 23 Dec 2024not really more like very high clocked custom cores barely ... moreAfter all, performance difference between Mobile Micro-cpu architecture and PC Micro-cpu architecture are as clear as day.

                            • ?
                            • Anonymous
                            • mFd
                            • 23 Dec 2024

                            RushGamer, 23 Dec 2024Good win for Qualcomm, ARM just feels jealous as Mediatek h... morenot really more like very high clocked custom cores barely beating arm cores although gpu arm takes the win

                              MarkusLeto, 23 Dec 2024You are wrong. Their focus now is their new Harmony OS Next... moreYeah additionally many china insiders have proven that huawei has been stealing users' data. That's why I advise my family to buy all other chinese brands except huawei

                                The Android Freak, 22 Dec 2024Huawei has done remarkable process in chipset department. T... moreYou are wrong. Their focus now is their new Harmony OS Next.

                                But Huawei forgot a lot of things this year.

                                They forgot all of the global Pura users outside China. They promised AI features before launch and it's almost 2025 now but global users have received only security updates. Every monthly notif of an update so full of hope, only to be disappointed upon finding out it's just another security update. Welcoming 2025 with an inferior flagship phone with no AI features.

                                They forgot to clean the Pura camera output. Chromatic aberration is plenty. Using the cameras even made the Pura heat up right after launch, but that was patched already. And if you check the youtube reviews, vivo's ultra has beaten Huawei flagships in 2 generations now.

                                They forgot to put a nano-memory card slot to the Pura phones. They also forgot to put e-sim modules on all Pura models. They have e-sim in the pro, but Huawei forgot to put it in the ultra phones.

                                  Good win for Qualcomm, ARM just feels jealous as Mediatek has been eaten alive by the Snapdragon 8Elite's custom cores' performance. This is why they want the nuvia x Qualcomm acquisition down.

                                  Would love to see the upcoming evolution of the next Snapdragon X and 8 Elite chips. 8Elite 2 might even be slightly better next year to the upcoming A19Pro from Apple who knows

                                    Anonymous, 22 Dec 2024Huawei main focus is just about cameras. That's all wh... moreHuawei has done remarkable process in chipset department. They will be on par with Qualcomm in 2028-2030. There is no doubt about that. For displays they will have to depend on different vendors I believe. But looking at OnePlus 12 and iQOO 13 display, I don't think Huawei will put ordinary display in future on their flagship phones. Huawei flagship will be crazy good in future.

                                      Anonymous, 22 Dec 2024Elite 2 to cost 20% more. Multicore above 12000. 2nm. 😱Are you sure? S26U will cost 1700-1800USD for 512GB I guess.

                                        • ?
                                        • Anonymous
                                        • raQ
                                        • 22 Dec 2024

                                        The verdict is fair, as all future verdicts will be.

                                        Qualcomm owes absolutely nothing to ARM Holdings, which is engaged in patent trolling. (Intellectual dishonesty typical of a millennial model of thinking that centralizes man vs. man).

                                        Nuvia was absorbed and became Qualcomm for all intents and purposes the moment it was acquired by Qualcomm itself.

                                        This is the point.

                                        Therefore, Nuvia is no longer subject to ARM's payment for previous patents on server CPUs, as it will no longer build server CPUs with (patent trolling) ARM technology.

                                        Since it is de facto and for all intents and purposes Qualcomm, the current agreements between Qualcomm and ARM regarding current patents on CPUs with mainstream ARM instructions apply.

                                        RISC-V is the way of openness and 'innovation, representing in the FACTS of the digital world what does not happen in the real world. (And it is a future against greedy, "patent-proof" pigs).

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