Samsung announces new 50MP ISOCELL GN2 camera sensor with Dual Pixel Pro

23 February 2021
The green pixels are split diagonally to receive information on the top and bottom of the pixel as well.

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  • W13
  • D6e
  • 18 Mar 2021

What's the cheapest upcoming/new phone with this sensor?

    • ?
    • Anonymous
    • gBV
    • 09 Mar 2021

    Also, Quad Bayer raw files are bad as raw converters usually don't support them. Usually, the raw file seems to contain rearranged pixels in order to get a Bayer array, this leads to artifacts.

      • ?
      • Anonymous
      • gBV
      • 06 Mar 2021

      Nick Tegrataker, 25 Feb 2021(Continued) "Quadbayer are so good, let me see how ma... more"A simple high resolution sensor wouldn't work out well on smartphones"
      A 41 megapixel Bayer sensor would work well with a 98mm² sensor (area of the GN2) at base Iso equivalent exposures. The image quality of a Google Nexus 5x in HDR+ On mode was fantastic at pixel level at base Iso and it had a 12.2 megapixel sensor with an area of 29.3mm².
      41/12.2 x 29.3mm² = 98mm² , so at base Iso each pixel could still receive the same amount of light because the 1.55 micrometer pixel size wouldn't change. There are sensors with a larger pixel size, but at base Iso this only makes the shadows less noisy and this could be solved (maybe) by combining different exposures, at least that's what Samsung and Apple are doing.

      41 megapixels wouldn't be bad even in low-light conditions because a 41 megapixel 98mm² sensor + f/1.8 lens would perform noticeably better(!) in low light conditions than the 24mm² + f/1.8 hardware of an iPhone 11 or Pixel 3a, which are able to produce good low light results. Even better low light image quality can be achieved with an additional camera, for example the S21 has two main cameras: 64 megapixel and 12 megapixel.

        • ?
        • Anonymous
        • gBV
        • 06 Mar 2021

        I really would like to see some 100 megapixel photos of the Gn2, I don't know whether any smartphone company uses dual pixel super resolution algorithms. Until recently, I didn't know that this is possible at all, though the 100 megapixel results will be likely only slightly (!) better than the 50 megapixel results.

        Currently, only Huawei seems to handle Quad Bayer sensors well. The 54mm image quality of the Mate 40 Pro is extremely impressive. It doesn't have a 54mm equivalent camera, it only has a 12.5 megapixel 23mm equivalent camera, but it actually has 100 megapixels as it is a Quad Bayer Dual Pixel sensor, so there is potential for super resolution algorithms. (Quad Bayer High resolution modes don't seem to work well without multi frame super resolution algorithms)

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          • Shui8
          • KZK
          • 25 Feb 2021

          Nick Tegrataker, 25 Feb 2021(Continued) "Quadbayer are so good, let me see how ma... moreWell said, Nick.

          Usually after your comprehensive explanation, he will gone away without any answer & suddenly emerge again in another new thread 😆

            Anonymous, 24 Feb 2021No you do not. All you get is artifact. All the reviews ... more(Continued)
            "Quadbayer are so good, let me see how many professional cameras use it. Oh, zero !!!!!"
            Like seriously, can you please just refrain from using "bUt pRoFeSsIOnAls DoN't uSe tHEm" argument in this kind of situation? I'm getting sick of hearing this. When will you understand that the use case for professional cameras and smartphone cameras are completely different?

            A simple high resolution sensor wouldn't work out well on smartphones because they use a relatively small sensor therefore the light sensitivity would be greatly sacrificed, hence a QB sensor which can "switch" between the high sensitivity and high res output (good image stacking algorithms can deal with artifacts from the latter mode) is frequently chosen as a middleground.

            Dedicated cameras don't have such issues as their sensor size is not limited by the body thickness, so it makes much less sense for the manufacturers to use QB over the regular Bayer CFA.

            "You defend this tech just because chinese phones use"
            Nope. LG and Samsung also use this tech. Oh, and some Japanese and Taiwanese companies like Sharp and Asus do as well. I'm not sure where this extremely myopic "QB = Chinese phones" logic came from - it's both pointless and inaccurate.

              Anonymous, 24 Feb 2021No you do not. All you get is artifact. All the reviews ... moreDo you ever check the actual photos to verify other people's claims? Here are some samples you should've taken a look at before commenting. Please tell me, at the same field of view, which one resolves more details on grass/snow, tree branches and patterns of the balcony?
              10MP: https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/reviews/19/huawei-mate-20-x/camera/gsmarena_003.jpg
              40MP: https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/reviews/19/huawei-mate-20-x/camera/gsmarena_093.jpg

              Now this is from S21 Ultra, and the same trend continues, yes?
              12MP: https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/reviews/21/samsung-galaxy-note20-ultra-vs-s21-ultra/daylight/gsmarena_166.jpg
              108MP: https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/reviews/21/samsung-galaxy-note20-ultra-vs-s21-ultra/daylight/gsmarena_863.jpg

              Although QB/Nonacell sensors do not follow the traditional Bayer pattern, hence the extra signal processing to construct a full resolution image (i.e. remosaicing) always introduces artifacts, they still capture the luminance information at finer level than a lower resolution sensor with a regular Bayer filter. Obviously you can get better details out of the former in a good lighting condition where noise level will be low.

              (Continue to the next comment)

                • S
                • Shui8
                • KZK
                • 25 Feb 2021

                Anonymous, 24 Feb 2021From gsmarena .... S21U review: "The 108MP samples... moreLike the other guy said, head on to anandtech what QB is good for. GSM didnt test intermediate zoom, which when QB has advantage against normal Bayer.

                  • S
                  • Shui8
                  • KZK
                  • 25 Feb 2021

                  Anonymous, 24 Feb 2021No you do not. All you get is artifact. All the reviews ... moreI stand by my point. You forgot one thing about High Res QB sensor. Super Resolution algorithm crop mode. Mate 40 Pro for example, at 1.1x4.9 digital zoom, its been used intelligently, resulting in one sharp image. If you crop it using bayer in 12mp, the results were nowhere using QB sensor. Heck even at 70mm focal length, I can dare say it beats dedicated telephoto 70mm that Xperia 1ii in terms of details. Still amaze by my P40 at focal length quality at 35mm, 50mm, 70mm output. Far better than my older Mate 20 optical 2x telephoto (dont have QB main sensor).

                  Stop comparing it with actual camera will you? Big @$$ sensor doesnt need QB as it can produce plenty of details already. A7Siii only 12mp, even crop to 4mp got many details than smartphone at 12mp.

                  And yes, I do know Sony Xperia better than you, own their flagship, bunch of them, while u still holding on the ancient Sony smartphone. Experience matters. The thing is, you narrowed your mind just in Sony world, while ditching what newer tech has provided. If its right, I dont mind it, go on. But the funny thing is, you always provide false fact, again and again.

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                    • Arte8800
                    • mHu
                    • 25 Feb 2021

                    TheLastOracle, 24 Feb 2021It's great that Samsung and Sony are really pushing th... moreTrue.

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                      • Anonymous
                      • pQr
                      • 25 Feb 2021

                      Note that due to the f/1.57 lens of the Vivo X60 Pro Plus, an f/1.8 lens + GN2 sensor won't really capture more light per time.

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                        • SEUL8TR
                        • mHu
                        • 25 Feb 2021

                        Anonymous, 24 Feb 2021By the way, I saw some very, very wrong comments about the ... moreYou're very knowledgeable about camera ....
                        I can learn lot from you.
                        +1

                          • ?
                          • Anonymous
                          • pQr
                          • 24 Feb 2021

                          Anonymous, 24 Feb 2021See 2x sample images of the Mate 40 Pro. For example at ana... moreAt 54mm (digital zoom) the Mate 40 Pro can even beat the iPhone 12 Pro 52mm camera regarding details from objects, even at the edges of the frame.

                            • ?
                            • Anonymous
                            • pQr
                            • 24 Feb 2021

                            It is possible that future smartphone cameras with such a sensor won't have a 26mm or 27mm field of view. You would need a focal length of more than 8.5mm in order to get a 26mm field of view. But as far as I know there are currently no 8mm smartphone lenses with a small f number. When it comes to small f numbers, the maximum focal length is currently approximately 7mm. So maybe the next smartphone main cameras will have a 21mm field of view.

                              • ?
                              • Anonymous
                              • pQr
                              • 24 Feb 2021

                              Anonymous, 24 Feb 2021From gsmarena .... S21U review: "The 108MP samples... moreSee 2x sample images of the Mate 40 Pro. For example at anandtech. Probably it is hard to get a high quality when you just use a crop of a Quad Bayer sensor. But Huawei proves by using special algorithms /combining multiple images that you can get a lot of detail from Quad Bayer sensors. The digital zoom of the Pixel 5, which doesn't perform better than traditional digital zoom (it was just marketing, I have a Pixel 3a) and uses a crop of its 27mm equivalent camera, is much worse than Huawei at 54mm, which uses a crop of the 23mm equivalent camera. This is also the case at the edges of the frame.

                                It's great that Samsung and Sony are really pushing the features and capabilities of new sensors. The reason for QuadBayer/TetraCell was to deal with motion blur in HDR photos. These new Staggered Sensors should help improve dynamic range even further.

                                Google hasn't pushed Super Res Zoom and other features further, mostly because its hardware has had minor incremental changes in the last few generations.

                                Smart OIS also can help circumvent sensor limitations and help improve image quality even further than it does right now. I guess we'll have to wait, since companies are going slower than they should or could.

                                  • ?
                                  • Anonymous
                                  • pQr
                                  • 24 Feb 2021

                                  By the way, I saw some very, very wrong comments about the sensor size.
                                  This sensor has an active area of 98mm², whereas 3:2 1" type sensors have an active area of 115mm², so it is 85% as large as the typical 1" type sensor, so it's only 15% smaller.
                                  A 1" type 4:3 sensor would have an active area of 120mm². In this case it is only 18% smaller.

                                    • ?
                                    • Anonymous
                                    • pQr
                                    • 24 Feb 2021

                                    Yuri84, 24 Feb 2021They apply much more computations in photography and using ... morePhysics is actually the reason why smartphone cameras beat large cameras in several scenarios.

                                      Anonymous, 24 Feb 2021Not only they need to make a bigger sensor again, they need... moreThey apply much more computations in photography and using quad-bayer sensor they can compensate to some extent their choice of glass. I understand they can never really compete due to physics, but at least they may be able to push for innovations in normal cameras somewhat. As far as I can see, anything other than FF is really struggling. Fuji is trying to change things a bit with X-S10 and X-T4, but its mostly evolutionary changes, not revolutionary. If, for example, Sony tried to implement a 80mp or 100mp quad-bayer sensor and apply some algorithms to improve dynamic range or reduce noise, it could improve normal camera performance.

                                      Or they could push for smaller cameras. If Samsung can squeeze 1 inch sensor into a phone, why Sony can't make a smaller RX camera? Or maybe Sony can make interchangeable lens RX100 with a number of small prime, zoom lenses?

                                        • ?
                                        • Anonymous
                                        • Lj$
                                        • 24 Feb 2021

                                        From gsmarena ....

                                        S21U review: "The 108MP samples aren't that great in full res - they lack detail, soft and noisy."

                                        Mi11 review : "The Mi 11 has a dedicated 108MP mode. These high-resolution images look okay but are a bit noisy and not very detailed."

                                        Mate 40 Pro review: "You can also shoot at the nominal 50MP resolution and that way you're getting the native 23mm equivalent focal length - 12MP shots are a little tighter at 27mm. We're not seeing extra detail in these images".




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