Oppo patent reveals smartphone with side pop-up camera

03 January 2020
Take a look at the first side-mounted pop-up cam.

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  • D
  • AnonD-731363
  • SH3
  • 07 Jan 2020

Hmmm interesting what next???
ID printer on phone back???
Or a talk app from Sexi Jexi movie???

    • D
    • AnonD-909757
    • 0JM
    • 06 Jan 2020

    DroidBoye, 05 Jan 2020Adding 5G, transistors, new SoC, new battery (as you mentio... moreI compared them mechanically to what is the closest to them, which I think is fair when talking about their life expectancy, because if (and it is the case) the additional system can last longer or can be more reliable than the camera itself it host which is the same on other systems like bezels, notch and punch hole, then the comparison is pointless.

    Talking about biometric, what you forget is that because of the space eating nature of notch and punch hole, is that because of them, most useful sensors have disappeared, most only have a single camera, proximity and ambient light sensor disappeared because of the notch and the punch hole can't allow their existence either, this cause biometric from facial recognition to be significantly less secure as it prevent the ability to put additionals sensors such as IR and/or UV camera and dot projectors or even a flood light to allow night use of both the camera for the user and facial recognition.
    The Notch on the Iphone is quite smart because the top of the screen only have a limited number of stuff displayed there, on Android, that's the opposite, it's one of the most important part of the screen, and even the teardrop notch, one of the smallest, dramatically limit the number of elements displayed there, we are down to 75% of the possible display on a non interrupted display.
    Also, one really objective point, privacy, that's not just a matter of few data used for ads, it can cause massive issues for a lot of peoples, here :
    This is one of the many exemples of what can happen, now combine it with that :
    And what you get ? No anonymity, now one day a big company do something bad to you, a totally illegal action, they identify you and want to put pressure on you to drop the charges, what could goes wrong ?
    Oups, that leaked picture of you on the toilet that an app have illegally taken and sold, or that moment you had an intimate relationship with your mate and your phone front camera was pointed at you, or this moment where we can see some sensitive informations such as social security or bank data, just because they were in front of the phone when it was on its dock so it had a clear view on it, or maybe it could be your kinky side you certainly not want anyone to know, or that thing you forgot to paid for...
    It already happen with password a lot, when there is a data breach on a website database, they try cracking the passwords then all of them get sold on the deep web, and a lot of things can put you at risk of being a victim of such person who want to target you, from having insulted the wrong person or community on a forum to having a big company trying to silence you or force you out of legal actions.
    Now you might also be aware that a lot of fake Emails pretending to have a picture or video of you while you were on an adult website are being sent, and they ask for bitcoins in exchange for "not giving those to your friends and family".
    Of course they are all fake, the simple fact that they, for sure, mass send them, but still use a single crypto walled to ask money without any way to know who paid and who doesn't mean that even if they did hold those informations, paying would be useless.
    But now, what if a new vulnerability (and there are always new ones discovered) that, before it is patched, cause massive leak of data and privacy, including from front facing camera, were for sale on the deep web and that black hat hackers use them to force peoples into paying, this time with real data to be revealed, they only need to put a different requested amount per user/email send and they know who pay or not, there is so much money to be gained that it will be a chaos, and that day, everyone without a pop up camera who could had one will hate themselves if they have really embarrassing or humiliating images used against them.
    This isn't a theory or a fictional scenario, this is what happened on computer with the WannaCry Ransomware few years ago, and few month ago, a security fail that could potentially allow any apps to access front facing camera without requiring access to it was patched on Android.
    Also pop up camera helped reveal a lot of apps and websites spying on users by taking random pictures, and we know that the goal of taking private informations is to sell those informations, regardless of the use.

    Notch and Punch Hole are stupid, they literally put something IN the screen just to make the screen bigger, a bezel is way better but don't look as good and they are clearly going away, the only alternatives are underdisplay camera, which have several issues, from requirement of software compensation, diminished light to the sensors, lesser precision or even incompatibility with advanced facial recognition methods (IR/UV camera and dot projector), inability to use flood light as it will reflect off the glass, rendering ambiant light and proximity sensor way less efficient, weakpoint on the display and/or glass structure and it affect the display quality...Plus, it render harder to hide from the camera and it prevent full screen fingerprint reader to be put there as it would conflict.
    Talking of which, this remind me when indisplay fingerprint scanner were first announced and introduced, a lot of peoples complained because there were "slow and inefficient" while nowaday they are at least as good as regular fingerprint reader on the back, side or bottom bezel and they are lightning fast, glad the industry did not listen too much to all the negative criticism as it is now the best fingerprint scanner tech available for its practicality, the one on the back require you to lift the phone, you can't just quick unlock it for a quick glance at something with a single finger without moving the phone, the one on the side is thin and it make it quite bad at getting different angles, and the one on the lower bezel prevent full screen/borderless experience.
    Fun fact, one of the most secure facial recognition on an Android phone is on the Oppo Find X which have camera and laser/dot projectors inside a big pop up system, and that should have been the way to go rather than the notch which leave a single camera available.
    Anyway one sure fact is that the notch days are soon gone and the punch hole is already in its way to disappear, the same way 2019 was the year that saw bezels disappear and was the year of the notch but also the year were the first punch holes came, 2020 will be the year where notch will disappear, punch hole will be everywhere and underdisplay camera will start to come more and more, soon after (starting the third quarter of 2020 I think) the notch will be actually rare, probably as much as pop up camera which wait only few events to gain in popularity, and punch hole will slowly disappear in favor for the underdisplay camera.

    Now, I do agree that there is a better alternative, something I invented actually, imagine if a part of the display itself, without mechanical part in contact, only using magnetic systems like optical stabilisation, it move the upper part of the display away, sliding it behind the rest of the display or rotating it 90°, revealing the full suite of sensors (except ambiant light and proximity which can actually be mounted in the bezel).
    This way, the display is moved quickly but in a non aggressive/stressing manner without physical wear and is cushioned at both extended and retracted position, it use contact pins to get data and power to avoid wearing down cables.
    This system would be quick, efficient, no external opening as it is under the screen glass, so it is perfectly waterproof and dustproof, it can allow for huge frontal camera and a lot of sensors, it can be integrated with the display emitting sound technology which is better than regular speakers, and it doesn't cause any part of the display to be cut away definitively, allowing for a true fullscreen experience, and fullscreen fingerprint scanner can even be integrated with it, meaning it doesn't render it impossible to implement and the way it would move can easily be quick and allow for almost instantaneous camera access.
    What do you think about that ?

      • D
      • AnonD-909757
      • 0JM
      • 06 Jan 2020

      DroidBoye, 05 Jan 2020Adding 5G, transistors, new SoC, new battery (as you mentio... moreThey still add new point of failure and complexity in general.
      Solid state are NOT immune to wear, SSD have a limited lifespan, you actually need to disable auto defragmentation because each cell have a limited number of use, I already had a dead motherboard which also don't have any moving parts.
      5G require minimum new antenna, connections and modem, all those, as does improved SoC, add complexity, which IS an additional wear and possible failure point.
      Nope, I just saw someone boycotting pop up camera for NO REASONS, mostly when we consider the fact he is not forced to buy one and they are rare, it was enough to answer without having to read the whole thing.
      Front facing camera if/when it fail is one of the LEAST bothering thing that can fail on a phone, literally everything else on the phone would have a way bigger impact if they fail.
      And yes this is EXACTLY the point, battery and display are core and vital components of the phone, if they fail, the whole phone is dead or require repair, both cost more to replace than a pop up camera part by the way, and those will in the vast majority of the cases fail well before the pop up mechanism which may still be one of the last thing to fail on the phone.
      The comparison is important because, who care that something can fail if the whole device fail almost certainly before that ?
      Bezel are good even if aesthetically there are better options, but notch and punch hole BOTH are weak point as they are a discontinuity of density in the display and its glass, the same was as an egg placed vertically is really tough, but a single crack and its resistance is compromised, the same is partially true for underdisplay camera.
      If you want a phone with less failure points, don't take a smartphone, take a regular cell phone, a camera, and a tablet, smartphone ARE complex, that's the whole point of a smartphone, a camera by itself is a failure point, the pop up mechanism is actually really strong and protect the camera by hiding it inside the phone, actually they proved to survive hard drop test, even if the self retracting system isn't fast enough to fully retract it before the impact, guess what, their spring system cushion the impact and could actually reduce the stress on the device, so they aren't a weakpoint, they are a strong point, and their functionality failure is not only the least important as impact on the phone, but also as I said, by the nature of the pop up system itself, which is actually pretty strong, this is one of the system the least subject wear.

      So you know that electronic components themselves are quite fragile, you may be familiar with how strong the laser moving system on a CD/DVD/BluRay or Floppy Disk reader is quite strong and hard to damage even when overstressed, while electronic components can fry with a little over voltage, and sometime fry for no reasons at all.
      Today I just finished cutting wood planks at home, and I have studied car mechanic at school, well actually it was "Maintenance and repair of heavy machinery equipments", it included a lot of tractors, but also cars, learning to solder, hydraulic systems and more, as unlike car mechanic we are not only teached to replace pieces, but also to create pieces of our own.
      And on a car, how often does the electric windows or wipers fail ? That's a really low maintenance part that can last longer than the engine, and the electric windows part is actually more complex than the pop up camera, which mean more parts to wear and that can possibly fail.

      Well, yes, but just say that you don't like them, don't fight as if you want them to vanish, as it is clearly what this kind of attitude lead to, and lot of users do prefer those despite their disadvantages you listed.
      To address those, they will last long enough on most phone, and the speed is reasonable, my OnePlus 6T which is a (old) flagship with a Snapdragon 845 require more time to register my fingerprint and unlock than the OnePlus 7 (T) Pro to lift its camera and unlock, and the time it take with the vanilla camera app to change from front to back camera is really close to the time it take to lift the camera module.

        Demongornot, 04 Jan 2020I was sure something like that would happen soon enough, cl... moreCan't agree more. People who defending notch or punch-hole act like those phone are minority, while in fact they are more than 90% of all *current* phones.
        I had really hard time finding good replacement for my old phone, since I had limited budget but still need something that should last at least 2 years, also Amazon / eBay is not a good option in my country so I have even more limited options.
        Finally settled for Realme 3 Pro though it was a tough decision because it does has a notch, but the specs are good for its price, has 1 Sim slot plus 1 hybrid slot (wished for dedicated SDcard slot but hybrid is kinda okay too), has headphone jack, power button are on the opposite side of the phone as volume buttons (*yes* it is very important for me), and a 16Mpx rear camera (Xiaomi Mi Note 7 Pro has 48Mpx but it outputs 12Mpx image, so its a hard pass. And please don't argue which sensor is better because I will ignore it).
        To my surprise, I cannot find other phone which has those exact feature set even after making some leeway, like the SDcard slot and especially the notch. If I had more budget I would get a phone with full top bezel or any kind of popup mechanisms. Don't care if the popup may break quickly, because my old phone broke after falling to concrete from 2m high without a case while the screen is at around 90degrees angle to the floor and landed on the top-left edge of the phone. I'm pretty sure *most* phones will break too under the same circumstances, with popup or not.
        Also never cared about water resistance because phones are not supposed to be used near water. If you do then you're using it wrong. Period.

          • ?
          • Anonymous
          • IbF
          • 05 Jan 2020

          Panoramic selfie cam?

            AnonD-909757, 05 Jan 2020When was the last time you heard of such system failing bec... moreYou need not to compare the pop-up camera motorised systems to CD/DVD drive implementation. Just compare it to what it replaces ie bezelled, notched, and punch-hole front camera implementations in terms of longevity, reliability and speed for capture from an OFF state. They're all front camera implementations after all so why not compare them directly, as objective as possible as much as you could?

              AnonD-909757, 05 Jan 2020I did not realise this comment was ALSO your, so you've got... moreAdding 5G, transistors, new SoC, new battery (as you mentioned) does not add mechanical or even electronic-mechanical complexity at all. Those technologies were solid-state while motorized systems aren't. Also I've already said this on my very first comment on this thread and I won't reiterate further. If you replied to my comment, I would assume that you've already back-read from the root of this discussion (aka the first of my comment that created this discussion between me and the other user). I know that phones already obviously has its own mechanical systems, my main point here is that adding more to it by having motorized pop-ups add more complexity which could become the none-serviciable part when failed. Batteries are understandably one of the weakest point but we're not here for that. IF you want to compare the failure points of a motorized pop-up camera, compare it to the failure point of similar systems aka the front-cam on the bezel, notch, or the punch hole design then tell me which of them have very little to NO failure points at all? In this comparison we'll know why motorized systems were bad implementation in on itself in terms on failure points. Have the comparison as objective as you can, subjective preference does not apply on the comparison of failure points of these systems.

              I've dealt with arduinos myself ever since college up until now but my applications only requires me to implement them via the ATtiny chips (arduino as a programmer), I've had ES8266 here lying around and I don't have any applications for them yet and are not required. My main projects were implemented via rpi zero w to deal with networked relays with android and web-based controls. I have a complete set of SMD soldering station which I use to solder SMD components on my project and also repairing not only my phone but also that of my relatives. I'm not into carpentry but I do repair and maintain my own car up to a point that does not require specialized car computer systems to do so.

              On the point that I want to make and as specific as I could, motorized pop-up camera systems were just failures waiting to happen and is much inferior implementation to that of an existing non-motorised front camera set-up in terms of longevity, reliability, and the speed to capture shots on usual front camera usage especially on face-biometrics implementations.

                • D
                • AnonD-909757
                • 0JM
                • 05 Jan 2020

                DroidBoye, 04 Jan 2020It's already a bad design on supposedly solid-state devices... moreI did not realise this comment was ALSO your, so you've got a double answer.
                5G add complexity, adding transistors and getting a new SoC add complexity, putting a newer battery add complexity, putting better display, camera, microphone, speakers and all that add complexity, is it a reason for refusing to evolve ?
                Look at the American and Russian Space Shuttles, those are part of the most complex objects mankind have build, they still worked fine, even with the two STS disaster, their failure rate are still within the one of most rockets.
                Look at the Saturn V, made of millions of components, expected that less than a percent of them fail during the mission, that's still mean hundreds on them falling, still except Apollo 13, all of them successfully did their mission, and that's because of the complexity of the Apollo spacecraft that they were actually able to save the crew.

                What is more reliable, a car or a plane ? Clearly commercial airplanes have way less accidents or even failures, but they are way more complexe.
                Windscreen wipers, electric windows, all the actuators that control the brakes and wheels for advanced ABS and trajectory help are mechanicals system adding complexity, but they improve the overall safety and reliability of the car.

                That's the same for smartphones, guess what, one of the most often used system of the phone is the vibration motor, a lot want the haptic feedback when they write, there is all the apps that use it, all the calls, sms and notifications that use it too, yet how often do you read about it being broken ?

                Your whole phone is disposable, the battery and the display are way more consumable and subject to wear than pop up camera, or vibration motor, optic zoom and optical stabilisation, which have mobile parts.

                I do know about electronic, in fact I am a programmer, and I know enough about transistors, logic gates and CPU architecture to make my own computer, I am also quite a handyman, I just am in the middle of building a medicine cabinet with plexiglass front, and I plan to buy WiFi light bulbs and modify my light switchs with a ESP8266 and a 220 to 3.3v mini adapter to control them without cutting their power (which make them lose their preset and defeat their own purpose) and without spending a lot on hard to find WiFi switch, I also own an Arduino and I did play with it a little.
                So I think I can safely say that I know what I am talking about here, both on the mechanical and electronic standpoint, and I can tell that those pop up mechanism are more than tough, they will last longer than most of the non movable parts like screen, battery, sensors, capacitors and SoC and its external chipsets.

                If we were to listen peoples like you, we would remove USB port, Jack (for the few left), vibration, optical zoom, optical stabilisation, microphone (the membrane vibrate after all) and speakers.
                Funny enough, this is this exact attitude that got headphone jack removed and I bet you are angry against it the same way you'll be upset when USB port will be removed too, same for sim and sd card slots.

                  • D
                  • AnonD-909757
                  • 0JM
                  • 05 Jan 2020

                  DroidBoye, 04 Jan 2020The main point that I don't own a pop-up camera phone is be... moreWhen was the last time you heard of such system failing because of dust ?
                  Those mechanical systems are the same used on CD, DVD and BluRay readers, including the old floppy disc mechanism too, except when they were made out of cheap materials, they usually last long, and I am talking here about decades.
                  That's literally the same reasoning that made the headphone jack gone missing and that will make USB port disappear, in probably 3 years maximum phones without any ports will start to appear on the market.
                  the system is waterproof enough to survive hours under water and survive in an actuation while immersed, that's not for the little dust that will get in that you'll get any failure from this in any reasonable time, your phone will be a dead brick while the pop up system will probably remain fully functioning.
                  Also, there already are a LOT of phones without pop up available, clearly NOT ENOUGH for those who like and want it, so if you don't like it, good, just don't buy one, you have more than enough phones availables to choose from which haven't got this system, and if you don't value your privacy that's your own business, but don't fight it because you don't like it while you are clearly not forced to take one, that's because of this that their number have stayed too low for many users to find the phone matching their desires AND which have a pop up camera, because they lack diversity.

                    hmm, 04 Jan 2020I have never owned a popup phone too. i still have redmi no... moreIt's already a bad design on supposedly solid-state devices (smartphones), mechanicals adds complexity and mechanical complexity adds more points of failure (parts to fail). IF you believe otherwise then you're definitely into the "disposable" smartphone market for sure. I don't own one because I won't and never will be. You not being able to comment about mechanical implementations (because you never owned one? haha) just shows that you're not well-versed into electronics at all (or even the mechanical side of these designs). For others that doesn't know but are curious they'll read (Google is your friend), and if you choose not to learn then it's on you but just don't expect others to think and do what you do.

                      Wow, I didn't think it was possible to solve the non-existing problem of selfie camera any worse, but here it is...

                      Just make a small top bezel and put selfie camera in it. Boom, solved. Like Meizu 16s.

                        • h
                        • hmm
                        • m2J
                        • 04 Jan 2020

                        DroidBoye, 04 Jan 2020The main point that I don't own a pop-up camera phone is be... moreI have never owned a popup phone too. i still have redmi note 5 cause it works for me and soon will be already 2 years old and looks like new still. i cant comment on the popup mechanics when i have never owned one. If you have never owned one then dont speculate that it's a bad to maintain or what ever bs your fantasy will come up with.

                        I dont read xiaomi forums and so far i have not read any news about popups have any flaws. And i dont think they ended making them cause they have issues. Xiaomi and everyone are just making new models every month and there for all these models have less people who buy them. The amount of people who change there phone every month is very low. The majority of people still buy phone and use it 2-3 years before they change to new one. Some even use 5 years ans most people dont even care about updates when there phone is working then they see no problem. It's like money grown on tree's that you change your phone like socks.

                          • m
                          • msjoker_
                          • sxs
                          • 04 Jan 2020

                          Still love the shark-fin pop up camera

                            hmm, 03 Jan 2020You must be dropping your phones like once a day if these p... moreThe main point that I don't own a pop-up camera phone is because they break when not "maintained". Mechanicals will accumulate dust over time and none of these pop-ups has an IP rating against dust to its mechanism. Does these phones allow you to maintain the mechanical parts without dismantling all the phone? IF not then that part is doomed to fail whether you use it or not because NO ONE can easily maintain it, that does not even consider accidental falling of the phone and some unintended nudges while the camera module is out.

                            For example: Check Xiaomi's pop-outs, their K20 has those but did their K30 has it? NO. Check their forums for you to understand. Whichever manufacturer that is, the pop-outs were more of a problem to deal with after sales. Smartphone companies don't want that kind of problem.

                              • D
                              • Demongornot
                              • 0JM
                              • 04 Jan 2020

                              I was sure something like that would happen soon enough, clearly the next step is to combine pop up and periscopic cameras together and make a pop up module use one of the rear camera sensor.

                              Sadly a lot of peoples are against pop up camera for unjustified reasons :
                              _Peoples say they prevent waterproofing, its false, existing phone with pop up camera have showed excellent water survivability for extended underwater periods of time, also it is possible to make a totally waterproof pop up system that isn't expensive using compartments and contacts pins.
                              _Peoples say they are slow, my OnePlus 6T need more time to read my fingerprint and unlock than the OnePlus 7 (T) Pro to lift its camera and unlock after facial recognition, so NO, they aren't slow at all.
                              _Peoples say they are fragile, drop test prove otherwise, basically the rest of the phone will die first, mainly the screen, also it will always be better to have to replace a single little electric motor or one of the slowing mechanism component than a whole screen, so even if it break, it is still not the worst, plus they are self retracting, though drop tests prove they don't fully retract in time for most of the drops, but even dropping on the camera, even at angle or with lateral forces, they are really hard to break. Also, what is better for a front facing camera safety ? Being hidden behind a little sheet of glass, or inside the whole phone ? Actually it can probably save your screen by acting as a damper and still not break.
                              _Peoples say they are a wear, well yes, but so is your screen, your battery, your tactile, your screen's glass, your vibration motor, that's because "it is a wear" that they removed the headphone jack which STILL DOES have use, including charging our phone + watching video/movies through a jack headset/headphone (like my Corsair Void Pro for example, or any other high quality headset/headphone like Sennheiser, I prefer headset over Earphone, a thing getting inside the ear is gross. Jack is still used in pro music industry and most music instruments have one, including 3000€/$ + guitars, but someone a wireless connection that don't have the bandwidth required to properly transmit the full audio quality is better than a old but perfectly working standard that have almost universal compatibility ?
                              Yes it is a wear, but even if you use it a lot, I am sure in the biggest majority of the cases, you'll have OLED burning or dead battery before it stop working, hell even before it stop working good as new, there are SO MUCH mechanicals stuff that have wear but last for decades, including optical stabilisation sensors, focus and zoom on high end camera, and those who know photography will laugh at those saying that they are a wear or a weak point that need to be replaced.
                              _Peoples say they take space that could be used for bigger battery, well, they do, but if the same peoples could stop pushing for always thinner phone, it would be a great beginning, and a definitely prefer a little space wasted by the nice pop up mechanism than a screen broken from factory with something like a punch hole or a notch !

                              Pros ?
                              Safe inside the phone, and only out when needed.
                              Allow true full screen without removing front camera.
                              If developed properly, could be used for better, faster and more secure facial recognition.
                              Prevent privacy intrusions.

                              The first notch was on the Essential Phone PH1, the goal was clearly to gain as much screen surface as possible without removing the front camera.
                              For the Iphone X, where while the goal was also to maximise screen surface, it was wide because it hosted a huge battery of sensors : microphone, camera, infrared camera, dot projectors, light, proximity sensor and an ambient light sensor, all that while still allowing half of the screen to still be useful, and considering that only few informations at both edge of the display are shown on IOS, this is actually useful and smart.
                              And on android, the HUGE notch, at MOST host two cameras and a speaker, on ANDROID, the system that can easily have the top of the display FULL of notifications icons, yeah genius, while Apple used dead space to put as much sensors as possible for useful purposes, let's put a huge thing where the display is already used for one of its most important feature to put the least amount of things as possible...PURE GENIUS !
                              Actually even the tear drop design is wasting space and prevent multiples additionals icons.
                              When Android itself is require to make walk around features and include a "hide it" functionality, you know that this is actually something that shouldn't exist.
                              Punch holes are the same by the way, they are just notch without the useless dead screen over and around them, but they are still damn holes inside screen we try to squeeze as much pixels and refresh rate as possible in...I am sure the same peoples we defend the notch will still be annoyed by a dead pixels on a TV/computer monitor.

                              Almost all Android phones always had poor facial recognition security, and the reason is actually quite simple, because they use only one camera, some have solutions, like Samsung with Iris scanner or Oppo Find X dots projectors like Apple.
                              Now put lasers/dot projectors, two camera, one IR camera, one UV camera and in case of low light a floodlight, and now you have a REALLY secure solution.
                              You can't fool it with a picture as it can see 3D shapes, you can fool it with 3D heads print because it can see details in IR and UV that most fake head solutions can't reproduce, you can't fool it with two pictures that have the IR and UV map of your face because of the dot projectors.
                              Notch made on Android phones are quite bad at squeezing sensors on it, the sensors density is really bad, we already lost ambient light and proximity sensor because of that, and using the camera for that is not only a cheap replacement, but also a power consuming and poor result solution.
                              While those two sensors can still exist in extremely small bezels, other can't...
                              Hiding those sensors when not in use to not only protect them, but also make use of the fact that they are moving to gather an additional depth set of datas without requiring the user to move could actually improve the safety, efficiency and reliability of facial recognition one step further, because moving a 2D sensors over 3D surface already help collecting 3D data, now with already 3D reading sensors (dual camera and dot projectors) the effect would be amazing, I am sure it would give such accuracy (if the sensors are good enough) that it could reliably be used as the most secure personal identification system one would have, and probably even be better at telling apart twins compared to Apple.
                              Just add a software safety to check for any natural facial movements, and good luck fooling this system.
                              A pop up mechanism could make such a wide array of sensors possible while having a bezel less display.

                              Some might start thinking about under display camera, and indeed for my OnePlus 6T replacement, if I don't find a good flagship with the features I want including a pop up camera, I'll take one with under display camera, probably the Oppo Find X2 if it reveal itself to be really great, it is still way better than any huge bezels, notches or holes, but they have two issues.
                              First, while they proved great at making pictures as if the glass wasn't there (and probably because there is software correction for that, with a screen protector the result could actually be not as good as one would want), they do create a spot on the display where the luminosity and colours are off, it is noticeable under many conditions.
                              Second, most high precision facial recognition sensors will probably not like it and it will diminish their efficiency.
                              But the biggest problem, is that we can't hide them, they are CONSTANTLY facing us, with notch at least we can put our finger on it without having the tactile going nuts, but here, there is no more room for privacy, I want MYSELF to be hidden from the camera when I don't use it, I don't need the camera to be hidden from me but always ready to spy on me.
                              Actually, pop up camera helped revel many apps and website spying on users by taking one or multiples pictures because the pop up lifted itself totally unsolicited by the user.
                              Private life safety become day after day a bigger concern and each days there are MULTIPLES new news articles exposing privacy intrusion, I just hope I don't have to justify how important private life is.

                              I am not forcing you to like or love the pop up camera, but stop systematically complaining about it !
                              The worst part is all those peoples complaining about it while the number of phones with it is actually really small.
                              Take a look at any website that show list of smartphones, over 90% of 2019 smartphone had a notch, are you really gonna complain that you prefer notch over pop up and that pop up shouldn't exist ?
                              That's because of this logic that not enough smartphones have it and that I am still unable to find a phone that match my desires and have a pop up camera...

                              So yeah, I am glad to see that new tech are being developed with pop up camera, and I hope that we could have device with periscopic pop up camera able to use only one set of sensors rather than both front and back.

                                • ?
                                • Anonymous
                                • 2Au
                                • 04 Jan 2020

                                thats not only for selfie, that is also for making
                                video calls for someone. i cant imagine making video
                                calls using the rear camera.

                                  • ?
                                  • Anonymous
                                  • tPG
                                  • 04 Jan 2020

                                  This kind of motorized camera setup is still popular because of privacy.

                                    Anonymous, 03 Jan 2020same me too... i mostly use the pop up camera for face u... moreHow can a fingerprint scanner can only register 1 fingerprint???
                                    I don't know, but maybe you should check again.

                                      hmm, 03 Jan 2020I rather have popup camera then notch or holes in the scree... moreSame here, never use it and I'm not use video call to... I have a mirror i can use for look at my pretty face.
                                      Don't have the need for this, my children use it.

                                        • ?
                                        • Anonymous
                                        • XPA
                                        • 03 Jan 2020

                                        Kui, 03 Jan 2020Imagine if they'll put another one on other side Good idea though haha