Microsoft details Xbox Series X hardware, shows off load times
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- Anonymous
- n5X
- 12 Jun 2020
Anonymous, 21 Mar 2020It uses RDNA2 gpus from AMD, which haven't even been OUT FO... more60fps 980 ti oc at 4k
and other old gpus
- A
- Anonymous
- Mid
- 15 Apr 2020
Kangal, 18 Mar 2020I don't think you're well educated on these topics.
TFlo... moreConsoles are not much api based.. Those somewhat need to run just gui and system which requires less memory (6 gb here).. 10 gb is pretty much enough for any type games for 5 years from now.. As consoles don't need to do any other versatile workloads so the less shared ram is OK.. Games don't use cpu and non video ram much in this case.. Most of high end graphics cards have 8 gb ram today. 2080 ti has 11gb.. During games the gpu uses hit to 99%.. Cpu does only few things and the dram is just for whole system works including gui..
So you're kinda pointless here..
- Future Leader
- XSs
- 21 Mar 2020
Anonymous, 21 Mar 2020It uses RDNA2 gpus from AMD, which haven't even been OUT FO... moreWell don't be excited much because RDNA2 will be available for PC gpus as well which can outperform multiple consoles together.. And yes that 4k at 60fps on all normal settings isn't that amazing where mid range gpus from years can run better.. And only some hired youtubers specially non tech media coverage specs reviewers ie. Ãüstìn did show some of demos. Don't worry it's still 5 months + cov 19 exigence to go to come out two consoles and before that manufacturers will release some of mind blowing products which can ______ next 3 gen consoles at least.. And yes still all those lower size games are optimised for consoles and will play better than previous generations with some better texture quality, but those will be at least 5 years behind than higher mid range PCs let alone top end and top tires. I don't need to wait couple of months because I can measure difference of gaming quality by blink of an eye and got the result from demos..
- ?
- Anonymous
- XQP
- 21 Mar 2020
Future Leader, 17 Mar 2020Sorry dude there is no verified sites tasted yet.. It'll be... moreIt uses RDNA2 gpus from AMD, which haven't even been OUT FOR PC YET!!! Go check AMD's own news. And the Series X can already do Gears 5 4k@60fps. I think you damn well know how good of a system you need to build to run it. There's already demo of it tested by various youtubers. And if you don't still believe how inferior PC gaming has become, then just wait a couple of months and see it for your ownself.
- Future Leader
- XSs
- 19 Mar 2020
Future Leader, 18 Mar 2020Well we are arguing with a wrong conception then.
I won'... more*Well we are arguing with a wrong conception then.
I won't long my conversation this time, but here I was not talking about rendering of anything at where Apple's any lower Mac will perform better.. I was talking about RAW power.. OpenCL, 3d mark etc.. Except metal the vega pro ii or ii duo couldn't stand any of previous GPUs whether it's own family or not.. So where the flops gone now?
Again wrong picking.. I'm talking about console's shared memory here but PCs. And I didn't say that these didn't get shared memory.. Everything (working process) has shared memory system.. But I did say you can't merge them like this in PC.. System work obviously has shared memory system via memory management but gaming prospective it almost fully run on the potential of eGPU and its memory..
On your other words we both have our own valid points I believe, so I won't unnecessary argue on that.. Because I feel this newer consoles are at least safe for 3 years until We go with the pro version.. And manufacturers today apply a strategy of lunching new products as soon as possible.. So it can be reason to Console's manufacturers to profit more..
- Future Leader
- XSs
- 18 Mar 2020
Kangal, 18 Mar 2020I wasn't looking to offend, you are.
You're twisting my wo... moreWell we are arguing with a wrong conception then.
I won't long my conversation this time, but here I was not talking about rendering of anything at where Apple's any lower Mac will perform better.. I was talking about RAW power.. OpenCL, 3d mark etc.. Except metal the vega pro ii or ii duo could stand any of previous GPUs whether it's own family or not.. So where the flops gone now?
Again wrong picking.. I'm talking about console's shared memory here but PCs. And i didn't say these didn't get shared memory.. Everything (working process) has shared memory system.. But I did say you can't merge them like this in PC.. System work obviously has shared memory system via memory management but gaming prospective it almost fully run on the potential of eGPU and its memory..
On your other words we both have our own valid points I believe, so I won't unnecessary argue on that.. Because I feel this newer consoles at least safe for 3 years until We go with the pro version.. And manufacturers today apply a strategy of lunching new products as soon as possible.. So it can be reason to Console's manufacturers to profit more..
- Kangal
- X{T
- 18 Mar 2020
Future Leader, 18 Mar 2020Dude I've experiences on the topic but I doubt on you.. Eve... moreI wasn't looking to offend, you are.
You're twisting my words, which looks deliberately. I said "Shared RAM" or Unified Memory, I did NOT say SDRAM or Static-RAM. I know how CPU's function, you do not have to talk about cache since that is just strawmanning my point.
Also, the Vega Pro 2 Duo that you are referring to is NOT in the same family as the RX 5700 Xt. Not to mention the Vega Pro 2 Duo, is literally two individual gpu's (Vega Pro 2) on one graphics card. And the Vega Pro 2 (single) is slightly faster than the Vega VII, however, they were configured slightly different. For one thing, Vega VII is a compute card but AMD has blessed it with game-ready drivers. So on occasion, you can see the Vega VII perform in some games as expected, but the Vega Pro 2, that could fall flat on its face. And the Duo version doesn't do anything to mitigate this, in fact, it could be a hindrance. Why? Most games were not developed with multiple gpu's in-mind, so it can cause some bugs. However, you want to RENDER something, then you will see the cards perform against each other as expected, barring some memory bandwidth issues on the Duo. If you don't believe me, either read up on it, or get the new Apple Mac Pro and test it yourself.
It's a console... yes, that is what we are discussing. Not sure who you are arguing with here. And we know that Storage is a factor that can be customised (either removable, or external). And we know Price is a factor that can be changed either directly from MS/Sony, or through bundles, deals, and seasonal sales.
You think you cannot merge memories? Wrong. Check out the Subor Z Plus (chinese console) which runs Windows 10 (or linux). It has a Unified Memory, of 8GB GDDR5, and it shares the bandwidth of that with both the CPU and the GPU. Not to mention that practically all AMD APUs and Intel iGPUs behave in a similar fashion (the integrated gpu doesn't have its own RAM, so it shares it with the DDR3/4 that's on the system, and it fluctuates depending on the graphical-load on the system).
Regardless, you are coming to this from a viewpoint of naivety. You really think developers are going to behave responsible? No, there isn't this trend of use as few resources as possible anymore. The common mantra now is "compile as fast as possible" since the workers just want to get paid, and you cannot blame them. It is the fault of the publishers, who create these Crunch-Time, Heaps of Bugs, and the dreaded "Day 1" Patches. They simply want to advertise themselves, make profit, whilst churning out game franchises as fast as (or faster) the movie industry. Not all developers and game publishers are like this, but it is the unfortunate majority. So your optimism is misplaced there. You, yourself may "not worry" but for millions of us, we worry because we need to. That's why I wanted more memory, then it truly is future-proof.
PS: I ranted far worse during the announcement of the Nintendo Switch, since they opted for a system that was far weaker than current-gen PS4/XB1. However, they missed the opportunity to compete harder with all third-party titles, which could've been done if they released the Switch with modern specs. Or heck, they could have made the portable even more powerful than the PS4 if they wanted to. They had the golden opportunity to combined the newly released LPDDR4 RAM, Cortex A72 architecture, with 14nm lithography... all 2016 technology, but they opted for 2014 technology instead. Regardless, the Switch is a successful product, but it doesn't compete with the PS4/XB1 so it didn't add much/any competition to the market.
- Future Leader
- XSs
- 18 Mar 2020
Kangal, 18 Mar 2020I wasn't being rude, I was being straight-forward. First... moreYou don't need to be panic, because here you need to see again.. Not myself..
- Future Leader
- XSs
- 18 Mar 2020
Kangal, 18 Mar 2020I don't think you're well educated on these topics.
TFlo... moreDude I've experiences on the topic but I doubt on you.. Even your looking lack of informations too..
Flops (gflops or tflops) are just a theoretical unit. It's like another gpu cycle unit. It doesn't much matter how much number one gpu have, but it won't get any performance benefits massively until not having better architecture with major capabilities..
R9 290x has floating-point performance of 5,632 GFLOPS, while GTX 980 has 4,616 GFLOPS. Yet in benchmarks, GTX 980 has higher minimum and average FPS numbers than R9 290x. Same way Radeon pro vega ii duo has theoretically more tflops on paper, but it couldn't get near performance ability as RTX 2080 ti or Titan V.. Even in the same family it has nothing much do with the power of performance because radeon vii and radeon rx5700 xt both have more performance power than radeon pro vega ii duo with much less tflops. So?
As it's console, it can't be customizable like PC where users can control their own performance settings.. So it's mostly depends on Devs optimization. Or if Sony or Microsoft do give some ability to users..
But I lost my mind by seeing your last words! You don't have any minimal idea on this.. SRAM does typically used as cache memory, every microprocessors in the world have cache memory (SRAM) which can be called the primary memory (not main) of a CPU. Its capacity has to be much much less. Even compared to DRAM, it's faster and has less latency. Ram are using in graphics cards and consoles as main memory is GDRAM which is one kind of video ram.. So obviously not strict.. See again what are you saying.. Although SRAM has few other uses, but not that you're meaning here..
Correction: The SDDR5 is still under development.. So no one can't have it..
And here you can't merge PC memories like this.. Because pc games are meant to be running on GPU memory with almost full potential. System memory only can be used so little for making the connection with the running system.. And again don't compare console with pc like this.. These are for different purposes with only few similarities. Don't worry next 6-8 years devs will also make optimize their new games for old consoles.. Even as a primary PC user I don't care of it although I'm planning to get a newer Xbox sx or later ps5 pro.. And there Xbox 360 had 512 mb GDDR3 ram [SDRAM(DRAM)] not SRAM what you're saying here.. Well it surely had SRAM inside its microprocessors such as L1 cache and L2 cache..
Lastly I would say, using less memory of consoles properly is the responsibilities of Devs as they mostly release games at first for console..
- Kangal
- X{T
- 18 Mar 2020
Anonymous, 18 Mar 2020Just because you didn't like what they said and felt the ne... moreI wasn't being rude, I was being straight-forward.
Firstly, I didn't know if he was trolling with the username "Future Leader". And the rant he posted that Apple, Samsung, etc need to be fined. Now let's look at his post. He said TFlops aren't a good measure for graphics performance. His explanation was that "other major strength" was more important. So it is obvious that he hasn't provided the correct information here, either because he does not know (education) or his attitude (ego). This has NOTHING to do about me liking him or liking his comment.
My response was about expanding the information I put forward initially. And its self-evident, when in my comment I stated how TFlops is a measurement, that it is not perfect, but it was only used as to illustrate my point. I'm not advocating TFlops, but it doesn't mean it is useless. That was it. The core point was the difference between Maximum Performance, compared to Standard Performance. Hence, 12TFlops at Max is more like 10TF Standard, which is easier to say. It seemed like a long-rant, but that's only because it was technical, yet you could literally read it from start to finish in 2 minutes.
In the past I have commented with opinions, and others more educated than me, have explained that I was wrong and why. So I've eaten my fair share of humble pie. I did not get angry. In fact it's great to be able to learn, and not hold opinions as facts. For that reason, I generally try to withhold my subjective opinion, and instead state what are the objective ramifications.
IE: It is my subjective opinion that I want the Xbox Series X to be powerful. Because if it is powerful then it could be successful and lead to more competition in the market (PS5 / PC). It is the objective case that the hardware presented here from Microsoft is generally great, and could get the job done, with the caveat of the RAM limitations for future titles.
- ?
- Anonymous
- ILe
- 18 Mar 2020
Kangal, 18 Mar 2020I don't think you're well educated on these topics.
TFlo... moreJust because you didn't like what they said and felt the needed to go on a winded rant glorifying yourself doesn't mean they are not educated in anything they speak about.
Don't be so rude.
- Kangal
- X{T
- 18 Mar 2020
Anonymous, 18 Mar 2020point out that u can just add different types of ram and ge... moreI disagree.
History has taught me to be weary of the software progression. Remember when entire games used to fit on a single Floppy Disk? Now you can't load a single website with that capacity of storage. This is important because with "heavier" software comes the need for better hardware. And in this delicate balancing act, it's all about bottlenecks and compromises.
Things like "Price" and "Storage" can be compromised, because these can/will be altered during the lifecycle of a console. Things that are required to remain steady are firstly Memory, secondly CPU performance, and lastly GPU performance. Since we know that a "Pro version" is likely, then it stands to reason to compromise on the Price, Storage, and GPU... whilst future-proofing the CPU and Memory. That way a future GTA 6 game that was designed for the Base version won't be bottlenecked on the Pro version.
I vividly recall when 256MB was the norm, and I finally had a beast with 1GB RAM. It felt like it took ages to get to that point. Well in basically no time, we then had 2GB and 4GB RAM as the norm. It felt weird, and made me look foolish. I suspect the same will continue to happen with Video Games. Case in point: look at the Storage Requirements. Example, Xbox 360 (2013 Tomb Raider) to the X1S (2014 Tomb Raider definitive), to the XB1S (2015 Rise Tomb Raider), to the XB1X (2018 Shadow Tomb Raider).
So, I'm willing to bet you, that come 2025 we would have wished the Xbox Series X had launched with 32GB RAM. And by 2030, it will be a definite bottleneck.
- ?
- Anonymous
- 841
- 18 Mar 2020
Kangal, 18 Mar 2020I don't think you're well educated on these topics.
TFlo... morepoint out that u can just add different types of ram and generations like that. it really undermines your point.
Frankly no, i dont see in 2030 a good amount of need for 32gb of ram. for most that would be a waste. frankly for a normal os, having around 4gb is enough for the system ,8 or more is luxury. a system that doesn't need virtualization is bad if the os requires more memory. would call that bad design.
this time round the Xbox x series is as good as most 1000 dollar systems. would be plenty til 2025
- Kangal
- X{T
- 18 Mar 2020
Future Leader, 17 Mar 2020I'm just replying your two points.
Firstly flop isn't t... moreI don't think you're well educated on these topics.
TFlops is a unit of measurement for gpus, but it has its limitations. Mainly, it can only be compared with other gpus of the same family (eg RTX 2080 Ti, to the RTX 2060) or (RX 460, to the RX 590). You cannot compare any of AMD to Nvidia, or even compare them from different families (eg Pascal to Turing) or (GCN to RDNA2).
With that said, my point was correct. This thing runs at a Max Performance of between 12TF-13TF. And it has an impressive cooling solution. However, most games will not target maximum performance on most of the time. Instead, you're going to be seeing 10TF performance pushed out most of the time.
As for the RAM, it is not (strictly) VideoRAM. What this has is sRAM (Shared Memory), or better called Unified Memory. Judging by the performance by the Chinese Console (Subor Z+), it has noticeably higher latency than DDR4/DDR5 memory, and that's for most things, but it can actually have lower latency when discussing tasks running between the CPU and the GPU. The GDDR5 RAM also runs much faster than DDR5 RAM, let alone the GDDR6 RAM type. So I'm in favour of this solution.
BUT!
You still have to have "enough" RAM. Remember current mainstream Gaming PC's are using 6-cores, 16GB DDR4, and 8GB GDDR6 (24GB total). That is transitioning to Gaming PC's with 8-cores, 32GB DDR5, and 12GB GDDR6 (47GB total). Even with the "optimisations" on consoles, that's a huge gap for a 16GB console. If they stuck in a 32GB Module it would crush the current mainstream systems, and it would remain competitive for the next 6-8 years. The Xbox 360 came out in 2005, and it was mighty impressive. After 2 years it was seen as obsolete with its tiny 512MB sRAM. If Microsoft had put in a 1GB sRAM as expected on launch, it would have remained much more viable. Remember it went from 2005 launch and only got replaced in 2014 (more like 2015).... that's 10 YEARS!
Do you really think that in 2030 the 16GB sRAM of the Xbox V (Series X) is going to be enough?!? Frankly, I don't think it is quite enough for 2025.
- S
- Steven
- 81u
- 17 Mar 2020
Weird that the first videos lighting that hits the reflective table and people do not match whats going on through the TV.
Makes me very skeptical.
Maybe next time, Xbox, show actual footage... I would sooner believe it than something done in After effects...
- O
- OOIPSY
- knQ
- 17 Mar 2020
HoHaHaHo, 17 Mar 2020Do I have to pay a monthly subscription if I buy an Xbox? S... moreYes, about 60 dollars a year for online play, it goes on sale alot though, especially during e3
- b
- blastertoad
- jIv
- 17 Mar 2020
Truther, 17 Mar 2020It's already tested by Digital Foundry of this being equiva... moreSure I may not have the same base graphical fidelity on my pc, for out of the box game experience. But I have modding for the games I do enjoy, and not a single iteration of console modding come close. I also get a vastly larger game library. Then away from playing games, I am making games, and websites. As well as managing work computers, hosting a video server and game servers, recording and editing video and images for a youtube channel. And returning to the point of gaming I can use any peripherals I want. Steam controller, xbox 360 controllers, n64 controllers, racing wheel and hotas. At the end of the day they are all calculating tools. I can buy a tool that calculates games well, or I can buy a tool that calculates everything very well for twice the price. That's a bargain.
- u
- uhh what
- Gxx
- 17 Mar 2020
Future Leader, 17 Mar 2020Apple should be fined 10X more than this. There also Samsun... morewrong thread my guy?