Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra's selfie camera ties for second in DxOMark's tests

05 May 2020
That's a better showing than the rear camera, which placed 6th.

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AnonD-754814, 08 May 2020Why don't you read the review here before saying anything a... moreIt will start behave similarly ONCE YOU HIT 3X MAGNIFICATION. Not at the 2x.

https://www.dxomark.com/huawei-p30-pro-camera-review/
This is the word from a company who has received device and all the information about the technology being used from the manufacturer themselves before the actual product was announced. If I quote a few:

"Up to 3x magnification, the tele-lens remains unused; instead, the camera performs all zooming with the help of a super-resolution algorithm—a concept similar to what we saw on the Google Pixel 3, one in which the camera merges several RAW frames into one high-resolution frame that it then crops for zooming"
"but for intermediate zoom factors between 3 and 5x, it captures image data using both the primary and tele cameras combined"

And the 2x sample from P30 Pro that GSMArena took themselves also proves this claim, as you don't see a sudden "jump" in quality in the centre portion of the frame that would otherwise show up if image fusion between two different lenses was taking place.
https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/reviews/19/nokia-9-pureview/camera/gsmarena_811.jpg

Still doubt me? Go test out the actual device and you will see what I mean.
And I am using 4K iMac when I inspect photos, thank you very much.

    • ?
    • Anonymous
    • XRg
    • 09 May 2020

    Nick Tagataka, 08 May 2020Look, I do think they should include wide angle lens when t... moreBrother has S20 ultra currently(Exynos).
    So I know all its capabilities and shortcomings.

    "Still waiting the basis of your assumption that Zenfone is better in artifacts & noise control as well as HDR, a side by side comparison"

    If you continue to compare images from DxOMark, then good luck coz they aren't taking into account updated software.
    Unless you have someone comparing Zenfone 6 vs P40 pro head to head in selfie shoot out, you just going to have to take my word for it.

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      • AnonD-754814
      • 6p}
      • 08 May 2020

      Nick Tagataka, 08 May 2020lol are you seriously trying to peer pressure on me now. Th... moreI didn't put any pressure on you. I was just reminding you that you're a bag of all misinformation. Why do you keep referring anandtech ?
      I referred you direct bench-marking website. (AnTutu and Geekbench).
      3rd party info doesn't have any value over real one.

      Also watch the speedtest G channel. This test gives us real life performance idea and where the Exynos 9820 has better CPU time than Kirin 980. This proves Exynos 9820 has better CPU.
      Though the Kirin 980 won overall just because it was running the test on HD+ resolution , not even FHD. Which is a complete joke. I have never seen any phone running at HD before on the channel.

      And before stupidly referring only S20 ultra's photo why don't you compare it side by side with the P30pro. I think I referred you the same photo, just versus P30 pro.
      This is a smartphone periscope, not a 2000$ telephoto lens.
      Only stupid people with no knowledge on photography will expect great photo from that lens in that tricky situation(white snow in the background and darker trees in the foreground).
      Compare it with your P30 pro's photo with a PC. you'll understand.
      In PC you will be able to compare it side by side.(if you don't have one I can't help you).

      Also you just ignored the point that you mentioned, 1.5x, 2.5x, 3.5x, 3.9x like a ignorant.
      Do you really have any knowledge on these subject specially camera ? Because you've shared misinformation before. It's not the first time.

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        • AnonD-754814
        • 6p}
        • 08 May 2020

        Nick Tagataka, 08 May 2020"you're so much into Huawei that you'll ignore all the fact... moreWhy don't you read the review here before saying anything about how P30 pro does it's low zoom ?
        Now I'm completely sure you're hired by Huawei. Because you always gave lame logic for Huawei and also lot of misinformation.

        This is the full text of GSMARENA's 2x zoom comparison of S20 ultra vs P30 pro.(This was also with very early software of S20 ultra).
        GSMARENA :
        " We then zoomed in to 2x, a magnification where only the Galaxy Note10+ has a lens to cover natively. Here, it's interesting to see what you'll be sacrificing if you're coming from a phone without a periscope telephoto.

        The Ultra does use its tele cam for the center portion of the image, and fills out the periphery with data from the main cam - a valid approach that results in a really sharp center, but notably softer output once you move away. You can clearly see the lower half of the mural below the clock doesn't have nearly as much definition as the portion near the clock itself. The P30 Pro's behavior is similar in this mid-level zoom."

        and Also compare the photos side by side on a PC.
        https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s20_ultra_camera_comparison-review-2071p2.php

          Anonymous, 06 May 2020S20 ultra is much better zoom camera than p30 pro and P40 p... more>>Clearly stated "I'm talking about the ***consistency throughout the zoom range*** here"
          >>Still proceeds to argue that S20 Ultra has a better telephoto camera

          It's very insulting that you don't read the context of what I said before replying. Goodbye.

            Anonymous, 06 May 2020Again you are pushing samples from DxOMark which doesn't ha... moreLook, I do think they should include wide angle lens when they test the selfie camera. We're on the same boat for that.

            But frankly speaking, taking "everything" into account as you say is a very unrealistic expectation that you shouldn't have for this kind of testing organisation. All phones have their own unique set of features that don't exist on those from other brands, and only thing you can do when measuring their capabilities and converting them into numbers is to take the common denominator and focus on features that most of them have. If you try to take all features into consideration it would be also possible for you to say "iPhone 11 Pro should have better score for telephoto/UWA camera because colours are more consistent throughout 3 lenses" or "P40 Pro and S20 should get over 110 for video recording since they have the super slow motion" or something like those. They added the "wide" section for the main camera quite recently, and if the number of devices that have UWA selfie camera increases in future, I think a similar section will be added to the selfie test as well.

            "I have used the Zenfone 6z as daily driver for a couple of months"
            But not P40 Pro nor S20 Ultra.
            Still waiting the basis of your assumption that Zenfone is better in artifacts & noise control as well as HDR, a side by side comparison.

              AnonD-754814, 06 May 2020I don't care what you say. Because you always say something... morelol are you seriously trying to peer pressure on me now. Then I must ask, why do you assume that those "everyone's" opinion and not me who always tries best to convey you why I believe what I say is right? For the Exynos vs Kirin argument have you gone and read through the review on Anandtech I linked for you yet? How about fully justify your claim first before throwing me that kind of childish argument?

              "2x S20 ultra's detail is very good"
              https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/reviews/20/samsung-galaxy-s20-ultra/camcomparison/zoom/gsmarena_204.jpg
              https://twitter.com/UniverseIce/status/1235058499312177158/photo/3
              Sorry but I disagree with you. The transitioning artifact is pretty terrible if you ask me.

                AnonD-754814, 06 May 2020Have you hit your head somewhere ? Or you're so much into ... more"you're so much into Huawei that you'll ignore all the facts and bring unreal thing"
                I've criticised them tons of times as well for many stuffs (apparently you haven't noticed it for some reason), so it'd be great if you become more specific about me "ignoring facts".

                "I highly doubt there is any option like 1.5x, 2.5x , 3.5x, 1.1x or 3.9x zoom in S20 ultra"
                Just pinch in using your finger and you'll see a smooth digital zoom in action. On S20 Ultra there are convenient zoom shortcuts available at many different zoom factors, but that doesn't mean intermediate levels are not available.

                "At 2x zoom level the p30pro does the same thing like S20 ultra"
                No, it uses super resolution stacking to increase the effective resolution of the image (which is different from simple cropping from 40MP image btw). From 3x it will start merging the information from the telephoto lens and the main lens.

                "So just to show S20 ultra bad"
                My point is that some people may not be putting their thoughts on interpreting their subscore system properly (like you're assuming that S20U should have gotten a high mark on zoom because it has a great 4x periscope lens, ignoring significantly poorer quality at low zoom factor), not to make the device look bad. Don't take it personally because if that would be a logical response I could say something like "you're intentionally trying to make Samsung's camera look better than it actually is" or some other nonsense to you as well.

                "where did you get your theory of S20 ultra being worse than P30 pro zoom camera"
                I'm discussing the difference in the IMPLEMENTATION of digital zoom BEFORE the dedicated telephoto lens kicks in hence suggesting the reason why S20U got a relatively low mark for the zoom in their test. Not the quality of the zoom camera itself. I quite literally said "at 5x it's definitely inferiour resolution wise" in my previous comment and I never claimed P30 Pro has a better zoom camera than S20U. Read properly please.

                And one thing that bugged me the most - did you honestly believe bringing up the image quality of unzoomed photo would add anything to what's discussed here? That's just the field of view that the camera can capture using its full sensor area and there is NO digital zoom involved. Don't tell me you decided to talk about it just because GSMArena put a caption that they have been taken at 1x "zoom", like no phone uses special algorithms at 1x because there's not much missing information to fill in to begin with. To avoid the confusion I also specifically said "between 1.1x - 3.9x", but apparently that didn't really stop you from saying whatever you wanted to throw at me. I gotta say at this point I'm feeling a bit disappointed.

                  • ?
                  • Anonymous
                  • 7kY
                  • 06 May 2020

                  AnonD-754814, 06 May 2020Have you hit your head somewhere ? Or you're so much into ... moreHe probably viewing it on some tiny ass display.
                  I always compare these things on a 4k color calibrated big screen TV.

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                    • AnonD-754814
                    • Lxf
                    • 06 May 2020

                    Nick Tagataka, 06 May 2020Then 2.5x? Or even 2x? I'm talking about the consistency th... moreHave you hit your head somewhere ?
                    Or you're so much into Huawei that you'll ignore all the facts and bring unreal thing.

                    I highly doubt there is any option like 1.5x, 2.5x , 3.5x, 1.1x or 3.9x zoom in S20 ultra.
                    So, How could you even compare that ? So just to show S20 ultra bad you will bring these which might even not be possible and you(also DxOMark) will ignore the full size 108MP photos, the super steady video, 8k video and many more.

                    At 2x zoom level the p30pro does the same thing like S20 ultra. Uses both main and periscope to give image. So, I don't really know how and where did you get your theory of S20 ultra being worse than P30 pro zoom camera ?
                    Or Is this a blind Huawei fan's statement ?
                    I also didn't find any noticeable difference at 1x zoom.
                    Here, you can test it out too. Use desktop browser.
                    https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s20_ultra_camera_comparison-review-2071p2.php

                      • ?
                      • Anonymous
                      • uH}
                      • 06 May 2020

                      AnonD-754814, 06 May 2020Why do you keep bringing your stupid 3x theory ? It's a zo... moreI agree. Dxomark is rubbish. If they are to be the gold standard for grading cameras, they would have a studio comparison tool like gsmarena for us to pixel peep and do the comparison ourselves. Instead, they keep randomly pick phones to compare in different reviews and take different shots at different times.

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                        • AnonD-754814
                        • 8pK
                        • 06 May 2020

                        Nick Tagataka, 06 May 2020Then 2.5x? Or even 2x? I'm talking about the consistency th... moreI don't care what you say. Because you always say something opposite of everyone's opinion.
                        You're the only guy who still believes Kirin 980 is more powerful than Exynos 9820 SoC.

                        Zoom means Zoom. 1x, 1.5x.. Are those even a zoom ? Well if you bring these small comparisons then I must say The s20 ultra takes 9 points for low light telephoto where P30 pro takes 2 point. P30 pro telephoto can't see sh*t in the dark.

                        Even using combination of main sensor for 1x,2x S20 ultra's detail is very good(I'm not saying it's the best). At 4x, it's the best. Better than P40 pro. So, 88 points for zoom is definitely stupid/biased.

                          • ?
                          • Anonymous
                          • XRg
                          • 06 May 2020

                          Nick Tagataka, 06 May 2020Then 2.5x? Or even 2x? I'm talking about the consistency th... moreS20 ultra is much better zoom camera than p30 pro and P40 pro.
                          Huawei might produce marginally better details in daylight but in low light the P40 pro just gives darker images owing to small sensor with unnatural colors.

                          Don't even get me started on the video capabilities of the zoom lens on S20 ultra.
                          P40 pro plain sucks in comparison when it comes to video capabilities thru telephoto.
                          Small sensor can't match big sensor no matter how good the processing algorithms.

                            • ?
                            • Anonymous
                            • XRg
                            • 06 May 2020

                            Nick Tagataka, 06 May 2020"When I mentioned hdr is better, noise and artifacts are be... moreAgain you are pushing samples from DxOMark which doesn't have updated camera review. So it's pointless.

                            Versatility doesn't add to selfie score? Then how is this a proper indication of how good the selfie camera is?

                            It's clear, the protocols at DxOMark don't take into account everything and can be best ignored.

                            Besides, I have used the Zenfone 6z as daily driver for a couple of months. So I know what I am taking about.

                            In every thread I see you making excuses for shortcomings of Huawei.
                            That's another fact.

                              • D
                              • David
                              • XBA
                              • 06 May 2020

                              Y'all think dxo mark support Chinese devices...Antutu does worst

                                AnonD-754814, 06 May 2020Why do you keep bringing your stupid 3x theory ? It's a zo... moreThen 2.5x? Or even 2x? I'm talking about the consistency throughout the zoom range here. Sometimes you want to shoot at 2x, 3x, 4x at whatever in between. On S20 Ultra you get the best quality at 4x and if you go lower magnification then everything suddenly turns mushy and artifact-y due to improper stitching. On P30 Pro? Yes at 5x it's definitely inferiour resolution wise, but the quality loss before switching to the dedicated telephoto lens is somewhat better managed because the software tries its best to make up for loss of details and does better job than S20U here. So it's not just 3x point, but in a range of 1.1x - 3.9x.

                                "you'll see how the Ultra blows P30 pro for every step zoom"
                                In case you're referring to GSMArena's initial review, they didn't test out the zooming capability of P30 Pro until it hits 4x, where S20 Ultra's telephoto lens kicks in.

                                  • m
                                  • mark
                                  • nC7
                                  • 06 May 2020

                                  Their cleaning their name now after they put samsung s20 ultra rear camera on top 6 lol. Test the s20 ultra's rear camera again tho. Dxomark loves painting outouts on the p40 pro.

                                    "When I mentioned hdr is better, noise and artifacts are better controlled, that's not up for debate, that's proven already"
                                    You haven't proven it yet though. There's not a single review apart from DxO's that compares P40 Pro's FFC to Zenfone 6's camera. YOU haven't seen one personally (don't bring up random Youtube comparsions most of which are useless for various reasons), and you can't just read the spec sheet and say oh it's much better overall because its sensor is a bit larger and it's got a wider aperture, like no that's not how it works.

                                    https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-content/uploads/medias/post-43415/BacklitDuofieFairDeep_P40_DxOMark_Selfie.jpg
                                    https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-content/uploads/medias/post-43415/BacklitDuofieFairDeep_AsusZF6_DxOMark_Selfie_05-00-rotated.jpg
                                    The Zenfone has blown out the highlights and noise is visible in the ladies' clothes. Detail retention is roughly the same but looks to be more sharpened on Zenfone. Here you go, one example that highlights their points in the review. Show me samples to back up your claims already for goodness sake.

                                    "Super slow motion recording"
                                    "manual mode"
                                    ...Are you arguing that Zenfone 6 has more versatile camera than P40 Pro or simply questioning why Zenfone 6 has lower scores than some of the top tier smartphones? I've been focusing on the latter and never argued on the former. Don't move your goalpost and just stick to where we started.

                                    "proper flash"
                                    I answered that one already.

                                    "low light giving you terrible video"
                                    That's already been addressed in their P40 Pro's FFC review. Texture is where it struggled the most in their video test and dragged down otherwise really good video performance in poorer lighting.

                                    "I doubt p40 pro front camera has gone thru several updates"
                                    You "doubt". Yeah, a company who's been known for pushing out tons of updates to fine tune their processing software won't touch the selfie camera at all, K.
                                    P30 series has been improved quite a bit in terms of color reproduction and details since the launch and before the first OS update it received the night mode to further enhance its performance, and I'm expecting similar progression to happen on P40 series as well.

                                    "I am not going to include gcam"
                                    And again you're missing the entire point of this conversation and shifting it to whether Zenfone 6 has more flexible FFC than P40 Pro. And I can't argue with a person who randomly keeps changing the topic of the discussion to whichever the way one feels more comfortable with, sorry.

                                    "I see you make excuses"
                                    You should probably check if you're being biased towards/against a certain company first before calling out others that they are being a "shill". Go look at yourself in a mirror and come back.

                                      • D
                                      • AnonD-754814
                                      • 8pK
                                      • 06 May 2020

                                      Nick Tagataka, 06 May 2020P30 Pro uses super res zoom to maintain a good image qualit... moreWhy do you keep bringing your stupid 3x theory ?
                                      It's a zoom point. Why would they stuck at 3x ?
                                      Let's think at 3x it's bad and scores 6 points compared to 8 of Xiaomi.
                                      Then at 4x ? Samsung 9 and Xiaomi 0 .
                                      Samsung 10x zoom is also very well detailed. Only P40 pro has better detail.
                                      And don't say P30 pro is better than the Ultra. If you watch the initial review of Ultra with P30 pro then you'll see how the Ultra blows P30 pro for every step zoom.
                                      Still I'll say, DxOMARK s**ks.

                                        • ?
                                        • Anonymous
                                        • XRg
                                        • 06 May 2020

                                        Nick Tagataka, 06 May 2020"Better HDR" That's up to the software processing since th... moreBruh... When I mentioned hdr is better, noise and artifacts are better controlled, that's not up for debate, that's proven already. The image processing is already better.

                                        "But that makes the main camera less suitable for the group selfie. It's unfortunate that they don't test the wide angle lens for the selfie camera, I strongly think they SHOULD include it in the protocol as well, but it is what it is."

                                        >> Exactly, their testing protocol is half baked. Hence, unreliable.

                                        "superior portrait mode"
                                        "Better images in low light with/without flash"
                                        "Video capabilities are also better"
                                        Proof? I'd like to see one"

                                        >>Natural portrait mode owing to bigger sensor behind f/1.8, skin tones are spot on too.

                                        Does p40 pro front camera have Super slow motion recording? Does it have better autofocus capabilities? Does it have proper flash? Does it have manual mode?
                                        P40 pro has subpar bitrates in video and drops framerate n low light giving you terrible video, this isn't a problem on 6z. Besides, Look at images from selfie camera at night and that from Zenfone 6z, you'll have your answer.

                                        Plus DxOMark only tests with Initial software. They don't update their scores after crucial camera updates. I doubt p40 pro front camera has gone thru several updates to make it superior to 6z which has gone through tons of updates giving it superior HDR, superior portrait mode and just all round better image quality.
                                        I am not going to include gcam in the Convo either.

                                        Besides, in every THREAD, I see you make excuses for Huawei's shortcomings. That's why I called you a Shi*l.

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