Visionox has completed under-display camera solution development
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 09 Jun 2020
Love the Community, 08 Jun 2020Ah man, this Demogorgon guy is spamming the page here. Pop ... moreGuess what, I answered mainly because peoples said totally wrong and stupid things about pop up.
The problem is, punch holes and notches already cover over 95% of the Smartphone market, there is little other alternatives, and the Underdisplay Camera is a HUGE threat for the pop up while being actually a really bad solution.
So yes, there is a NEED for peoples to defend pop up camera, they are an endangered feature.
So this DemongorNOT guy spanned the page because so many peoples said totally false and debunked things about pop up, and guess what you did just here ?
That's right, you just said another one.
As I already said, IP certification is near useless on a phone, in fact it can even have more negative aspects than anything else and it DOES NOT guarantee that your own phone will survive even a single immersion of one minute at 30cm, it doesn't work that way, IP certification only mean that some FEW randomly selected devices passed the tests, and there are no way to check if they truly did as millions are invested, corruption can easily be used to change the result of a failed test with such amount on the table.
Pop up are ALREADY water resistant, and if peoples could stop saying stupid things about them and lets them spread on more phone, the industry would quickly improve them, and rather than a mechanical it will switch from an electromagnetic actuated pop up module that will be totally waterproof, IP certification is water resistant, here I am talking about real waterproof, the pop up module would be an enclosed piece with the sensor inside and just magnets on its sides and it will simply be inside a dent which keep it in but is still OUTSIDE the main body, making it totally impossible for water to get in, a passthrough cable or contact pins would be used for power and data, the design will have only pros compared to the current pop up mechanism.
Underdisplay camera will ALWAYS have inferior RAW quality, meaning less effective biometrics, less possibility with pictures and it will ALWAYS have a privacy issue, all of you peoples will really regret in the future to not take privacy seriously and to not jump on any things, event the smallest one, to protect and keep it.
So if this is the future, it will be a bad future.
If you ask me, the future is to have no front facing camera but rather all sensors on the back (except proximity and ambiant light sensors) and having a retinal projector display on the back, which can get from the exact same result as a regular display up to literally making you seeing a 3D hologram, having interface like Iron Man in the recent MCU movies and being the perfect glasses-less augmented and mixed reality device.
THAT is the future, not a gimmick that have a totally stupid concept...
Yes, there are technical solutions at making the underdisplay camera working, but just think about it, it is like building an house with only walls and doors, then surrounding it with massive and expensive amount of camera and computers, fan, temperature controls and smell generators so you can have rather than a windows a 3D display without glasses to reproduce exactly the exterior experience, even with randomly released insects and pollen.
Meanwhile I just talk about having a regular windows.
So yes, underdisplay camera are possible, and MAYBE one day we will negate the cons, but just ask yourself, is it really worth it ?
Underdisplay fingerprint scanners are indeed a camera, but they need the display to shine in order to see through it and ultrasonic ones are way superior.
The level of quality that a lot of peoples expect is higher than how those "clear" TV degrade the image of thing we see through them, now consider that the display on Smartphone need good enough blacks, which already make it totally different, and on top of that we don't talk about a human vision seeing through a panel at several meter away, we talk about a camera literally against the display, all the pixels at this point have a huge impact at the view, it is like a spider web from far, it look transparent, but get close enough and the independent wires can block a huge part of your view.
One way mirror still degrade the quality and lower the light, plus, you don't want the camera to be hidden from you, you want to hide yourself from the camera when you don't use it.
Just getting rid of the front camera and adding a manually deployable reflector that turn the main camera into a selfie camera would be a way superior option to underdisplay camera, it would also be simple, cost near to nothing and won't require millions in R&D and years of research to MAYBE have a unit that is considered good enough for mass production while it could actually have a bad picture quality (it wouldn't be the first time something thought ready was actually a total disaster)...
Seriously a phone without front camera would make more senses.
And you guys should realize that I actually fight for the pop up camera for all of you, not just for me, once my main projets will be completed I'll have way more than enough money to order a custom built Smartphone with all the features I want, what I do right now is trying to make rare but nice feature more common, because with such comments I can help a little the pop up camera but certainly not prevent the underdisplay camera from coming.
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- Love the Community
- Fv4
- 08 Jun 2020
Love the Community, 08 Jun 2020Ah man, this Demogorgon guy is spamming the page here. Pop ... moreThe term that I was looking for that is "like a One Way Mirror". You're only seeing the content on the front part of the display but behind it is nothing and clear enough for others like the camera to see what you're doing.
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- Love the Community
- Fv4
- 08 Jun 2020
Ah man, this Demogorgon guy is spamming the page here. Pop ups are cool and all but it's a hazard for not getting IP certified for iP67 and better. Companies should add thicker O-rings for the pop up mechanisms so it'll be really water resistant.
Under display cameras will be the future. Wait for Samsung to perfect it and fixes the problems. Zack from JerryRigEverything stated that the underscreen optical fp scanner is just a camera and what is seen from behind the display seemed translucent. And then look at LG Signature TVs. The OLED on these TVs is "transparent and clear enough" that under display cameras is truly viable.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
Jojo, 08 Jun 2020Nope. Pop up cams are better than notches or punch holes, b... morePop up camera doesn't make phone thicker, and even if it was the case, phones are way too thin nowaday anyway, they should be 15mm thick, not sub 10mm.
They barely add any weight too, if you want a good argument, talk about the internal space they take, which can be fixed by switching from a motor to electromagnetic actuated pop up.
Moving parts doesn't necessarily break, there is no issue with moving parts, your display, all the chips and the battery of the phone are more likely to fail from wear than the pop up, it have been proven times and times again.
Search "OnePlus 7 Pro pop up failure" or any other phones with a pop up, and you won't find any relevant post of user actually having issue with the pop up before a long search.
Search "OnePlus 7 Pro display not working" or any other phone, and you'll found TONS of forum posts about it where the display is physically dead, same with "battery dead" key words.
IP rating is useless and does do much, pop up camera are water resistant enough anyway to survive rain exposure and accidental drops in water.
And it doesn't add much to the cost, all the components are really simple and low cost, plus phones with pop up are on all price segments, including entry, middle and high range, but more importantly, some flagship with pop up count on the cheapest flagships smartphones.
For the "no front camera" I totally agree with you, it would be nice.
But I advise you to prefer pop up or thin bezel (Nubia Play, Xiaomi Black Shart 3 Pro, Meizu 16) over underdisplay camera.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
Dude, 08 Jun 2020They already fixed it with the periscope cam. Looks way coo... moreTrue, though they are called pop up or motorized camera, periscope is more adapted to the name given to the laterally laying telephoto camera.
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- AnonD-909757
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- 08 Jun 2020
Anonymous, 08 Jun 2020Literally all of them? from op8 pro to iphones? how many po... moreAnd in how many cases it matter ?
Just a question, if IP rating was that great, why NO brands cover water damages in their warranty ?
I already explained many times why IP rating is basically useless and goes guarantee at all that your phone will actually survive water immersion.
Plus, pop up phones proved to resist quite well against water to survive easily any accidental drop or don't get bothered by rain, so what more do you want ? A submarine ?
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
IpsDisplay, 08 Jun 2020You said something that really resonated with me
The poi... moreBecause capitalism...Those sensors would be too expensive to justify themselves as just camera sensors.
Also what smartphones lack is bigger sensors, not higher resolution or more sensitive ones.
Or if it is more sensitive, it will require other sensors to work with the AI, otherwise you'll get overexposure, low light shots would be awesome, but daylight would probably often cause accentuated glares.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
XORROR, 08 Jun 2020Why is everyone so worried about the reliability of a motor... moreHere is the video ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVBtSaBi2A8
And well, they'll see, they are all obsessed about it while the pop up is a better alternative, I say there is 50% chances that the underdisplay camera will be the worse fail tech of modern phone history by being really expensive and giving bad image quality.
And the other 50% chances are sadly bad tech habits with no additional sensors than a single camera, no 3D facial recognition or Iris scanner for example, and certainly no front floodlight.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
IpsDisplay, 08 Jun 2020I respect the progress of the technology
Have some conce... morePrivacy is for sure an issue.
Durability we don't know, the whole phone have a limited durability anyway.
Don't blame a tech for software issues, the Huawei P30 Pro screen speaker were not a problem by themselves, they could be the best solution to get bass that all smartphone lack.
Pop up are more durable than most of the phone's parts, mainly compared to display (underdisplay camera or not) all the electronic and the battery.
On top of that, if the pop up is broken, you just lost the front camera, not the worse thing ever, but if your underdisplay camera fail with the display in transparency mode, you just got yourself a phone with a punch hole and no camera working in it...
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
stema, 08 Jun 2020-lower resolution: only at that part of the image, you won'... moreAh, here we go again, those old debunked imaginary issues of the pop up, there are more unique individual talking about those pop up issues than any real post about pop up issues.
Pop up doesn't cause those issues, it also preserve your privacy, which is way more valuable than any of the false drawbacks if they were reals.
Moving parts isn't an issue, some guy wrote that once in an article and you all repeat it, meanwhile the industry made periscope telephoto (lens has to travel) and phone with gimbal are about to come (also moving parts), because the industry and the experts know that there is nothing wrong with moving parts.
We saw the first issues that dust caused now, 2 years after the release, and guess what, you only need to run the calibration and VOILA, fixed, no other issues what so ever.
Water have been debunked a while ago with tons of video, yes some are fakes but they are submerging the phone for damn long time after all, many are real, pop up don't cause any water issues except if you use your phone as a submarine.
Banding ? You meant Bending ? Once again something the pop up proved to be really though against, plus the moment you are more likely to bend the phone (in your pocket), the pop up is retracted, and even if it isn't, it auto retract.
Dropping ? Just look at the JerryRigEverything and all the other drop/slam (yes, slamming) test involving pop up, most often they hold better than key components such as the display, also, dropping the phone isn't common and pop up won't be always extended, and when it is, you are holding your phone while using it, meaning giving attention to this, which is the least likely scenario to drop it.
Of course it has to, what the issue ? The OnePlus 7(t) Pro proved to be as fast and even faster than comparable phones without pop up in face unlock, this include the Samsung Galaxy S10 5G, Huawei P30 Pro and RealMe X.
It is the ultimate solution, just not when you give it imaginary defect that are theorically plausible but happen almost never in real life.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
talha5007, 08 Jun 2020selfie cameras are not that much important for me. so doesn... moreConsidering the additional cost, you better take a pop up as it doesn't do any arm when stored and can't spy on you and won't degrade the display quality, and when extended it work way better than underdisplay camera that will certainly have really bad quality.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
Qimchi, 08 Jun 2020If phones are getting this feature there better be software... moreThat's what pop up cameras already do !
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 08 Jun 2020
Wezz, 08 Jun 2020Each innovation is welcome, but for my part the borders hav... moreAh, I See You're a Man of Culture As Well !
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- AnonD-909757
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- 08 Jun 2020
Anonymous, 08 Jun 2020"...this might bring a disruption of the quality of images ... moreWell I think you can multiply that "50" by at least 4 to get the extra cost it will add to the phone, and that's probably the minimum, it will be expensive as hell, I mean foldable phone expensive...
And well let me fix that list :
SS tier:
*Super Thin bezel with 3D facial recognition and/or other additional sensors (like the Nubia Red Magic 5G in term of size, no phone with such specs).
*Large Pop up camera (think Vivo V17 Pro like) with 3D facial recognition and/or other sensors (also, no phones yet).
S tier:
*Super Thin bezel with more than only a camera (Nubia Play who have ambiant light and proximity sensor in there, making it worth it).
*Pop up camera in general (Poco F2 Pro, OnePlus 7(t) Pro, Honor X10, Oppo Reno).
*Flip camera (Asus Zenfone 6).
A tier:
*Thin bezel with many sensors (Samsung Galaxy S8s and S9s).
*Pop up/slider hybrid with 3D facial recognition and/or additional sensors (Oppo Find X).
B tier:
*Super Thin bezel with only a camera (Meizu 16, total waste of space for only a single sensor and putting ambiant light and proximity under display).
*Large bezels with many/additional sensors (Pixel 4, at least it have a justification to exist).
*Pop up/slider hybrid camera (Samsung Galaxy A80, Lenovo Legion).
*Slider phone with 3D facial recognition (Honor Magic 2 3D).
C tier:
*Thin bezel with only a camera (Sony Xperia 1 II, a total waste of space here too).
*Slider smartphones with less advanced facial recognition (Lenovo Z5 Pro).
D tier:
*Large bezel with only a camera (iPhone SE 2020).
*Medium notch with additional sensors and in an OS where the space on top of the display isn't as critical as in Android (iOS, Windows Phone, Huawei Mate 30 had it ran on those or iPhone 2020 rumors design).
E tier:
*Large notch with additional sensors (iPhone X) and in an OS where the space on top of the display isn't as critical as in Android (iOS, Windows Phone).
*Really tiny notch that kept normal ambiant light and proximity sensors, (despite running in Android, the Essential PH-1 is the only one).
F tier:
*Large/Medium notches on Android with additional sensors (LG G8 ThinkQ);
G tier:
*Large/Medium notches with non shrunken down ambiant light and proximity sensor (Got no exemples I am sure about).
Q tier:
*Teardrop and medium notches that have over the display (but shrunken) ambiant light and proximity sensors (OnePlus 6t; Asus Zenfone 5, LG G7).
V tier:
*Large notch without anything else than the camera.
W tier:
*Teardrop and medium notches with underdisplay ambiant light and proximity sensors.
*Punch holes in a convenient place (Meizu 7).
*Dual punch hole with advanced facial recognition.
Y tier:
*Punch holes.
Z tier:
*Dual punch hole.
*Underdisplay camera with 3D facial recognition and other sensors.
Ω Omega tier (yes, another alphabet further) :
*Underdisplay camera.
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- Jojo
- k2%
- 08 Jun 2020
Anonymous, 08 Jun 2020I bet that spot will have different brightness/colour/ reso... moreProbably, just hope it is not to noticeable. Should move it to the corner to make less noticeable.
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- Jojo
- k2%
- 08 Jun 2020
My next phone will have under screen camera. I would rather have no front camera, but no one is making that. I just hope the pixels are not to distorted in front of the camera to be noticeable. I don't really care about the quality of the pics it will take.
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- Jojo
- k2%
- 08 Jun 2020
Dude, 08 Jun 2020They already fixed it with the periscope cam. Looks way coo... moreNope. Pop up cams are better than notches or punch holes, but not better than under screen camera. Pop makes phone thicker and heavier, has moving part that can break, reduces effectiveness of IP rating, adds more cost.
My next phone will have under screen camera. I would rather have no front camera, but no one is making that. I just hope the pixels are not to distorted in front of the camera to be noticeable. I don't really care about the quality of the pics it will take.
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- Dude
- mtM
- 08 Jun 2020
They already fixed it with the periscope cam. Looks way cooler too.
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- Anonymous
- NL{
- 08 Jun 2020
XORROR, 08 Jun 2020How many IP certified telephones without extensions can you... moreLiterally all of them? from op8 pro to iphones? how many pop ups have ip rating?
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- Anonymous
- v{u
- 08 Jun 2020
Anonymous, 08 Jun 2020like how they copy Sony 960fpsSamsung also copied LG's Always on Display