Huawei Mate 40 announcement event officially scheduled for October 22

10 October 2020
The reveal teaser has led speculations about advancements in telephoto tech.

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sorry, 14 Oct 2020Mate 40 series can't have a qwerty keyboard.Yes. Starting October 22, Huawei will launch the Mate 40 series.

  • sorry

Mate 40 series can't have a qwerty keyboard.

AnonD-754814, 14 Oct 2020No more wasting time with you. You ignorance has proven... moreAs I said, I wasn't expecting you to understand that subtle, interpretation based, and complex of a difference, nor default naming categorization reaching outside its etymological scope.

  • AnonD-754814

Demongornot, 13 Oct 2020"All LiDAR manufacturers indicates LiDAR and ToF as th... moreNo more wasting time with you.

You ignorance has proven earlier today when Apple announced iPhone 12 series.
You said Apple, Pixel use LiDAR.
But clearly Apple thinks different.
They have included face ID and LiDAR as different type.

Have a nice day and keep you ignorance to you.

AnonD-754814, 13 Oct 2020All LiDAR manufacturers indicates LiDAR and ToF as the same... more"All LiDAR manufacturers indicates LiDAR and ToF as the same thing."
"This is the problem with you. You only see what you need to see."

Oh the sweet sweet irony.
Actually the ONLY thing you've put your finger on is a naming issue and a reason why most LiDAR use ToF over Structured Light.
I have already gave you multiple exemples, even your Wikipedia link said :
" are part of a broader class of scannerless LIDAR" AND "as opposed to point-by-point with a laser beam such as in scanning LIDAR systems."

The problem here is that you already don't understand the simplified version and I need to explain you the real/more complex version for why there are almost no "Structured Light LiDAR" and why it still doesn't mean that ToF are the only implementation of LiDAR.

First, here is a link of a RESEARCH PAPER quoting Structured Light LiDAR :
https://europepmc.org/article/pmc/pmc7281653
On the "Free full text" part, down on
"1.5. The Scope and Organization of this Review Article" you can read :
"In addition to being applied in various LiDAR architectures, such as ToF LiDAR, structured light LiDAR, or Frequency-Modulated Continuous Wave (FMCW) LiDAR, all of the laser projection/scanning methods mentioned above can be used for generating structured light for 3D profiling such as 3D face recognition and 3D mapping [35,36,37]."

You want to act like a grown up peson, ok, your call, here is the fact :
LiDAR isn't just about light scanning, this is the simplified explanation I give, the reality is that what classify or not as a LiDAR is also depending on the application you have, LiDAR mean : "Light Detection and Ranging" and alternatively also mean "Laser imaging, Detection, and Ranging", by the way the reason why the "i" isn't capital is simply because uppercase "i" and lowercase "L" are looking the same.
The point is, LiDAR are about using light for ranging AND detecting.
Detecting is the tricky part as it is subject to interpretation, for exemple, in the case of facial recognition, is it "scanning" or "detecting" ? As you have to detect the phase in order to scan it, unlike more typical 3D scanners who don't have for job to identify and therefor don't need to detect.
Time of Flight is great at medium to long range but bad at short range and getting small details, because you are literally trying to measure how much time light need to travel tiny distances, so you reach times so shorts that it become quite difficult to compute it with precision, Structured Light have the opposite issue, for both visibility and dot spread (as most use a fixed pattern or a static dynamic pattern sequence) make it bad at medium and long ranges while being extremely precise at close range.
So naturally, for long range applications, ToF are the best use while for scanning Structured Light are the best, and since most LiDAR (remember, it is also about detection) are performed at quite long range compared to the 1m~ range a 3D scanner usually is used at, they obviously take advantage of using ToF, mainly as they don't require really precise, sub mm scale precision, there are still some niche applications where you need to detect stuff at close ranges and/or have high precision where Structured Light is useful.

So if you aren't detecting something (and again, what one mean by detecting is subject to interpretation) it isn't a LiDAR, so purely on Etymology point, the LiDAR of the iPad, since it doesn't really detect but rather scan isn't really a LiDAR as the main goal is to make a 3D map and only some other secondary apps use this for identification (and therefor detection), while the facial recognition the Face ID use with the TrueDepth sensor which work through Structured Light need to detect a face in order to scan and identify it.

The best use of the term "detect" is for cars where you detect objects, pedestrians, animals and other vehicles, same for robot cleaner who need to detect walls and other obstacles, but again it is subject to interpretation.

So in reality, many things that shouldn't be called LiDAR are called LiDAR and many things that should be called LiDAR aren't, and it isn't the first, the only or the last thing in the world where the naming is just completely messed up.

I don't expect you to understand that.

  • AnonD-754814

Demongornot, 13 Oct 2020Dude, are you blind ? Your article literally said : "... moreAll LiDAR manufacturers indicates LiDAR and ToF as the same thing.
Here in the description.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAzGaLildZw
I can refer plenty of LIDAR manufacturers(you can't deny those source as they make these) website where it's clearly indicate LIDAR is ToF.
I challenge you to show one website where it says LIDAR is based on other method.

ToF is a method, not a name.
LiDAR is a name.
Don't be confused. That's why I asked about the key methods.

About the Wikipedia topic.
This is the problem with you. You only see what you need to see.

The article said, "Laser based ToF is part of LIDAR". Not all ToF. ToF is a method, not a name. this is why LIDAR is also ToF.
This is what I said at the first day. LIDAR is based on laser even other source is possible Laser is used for almost all cases.

AnonD-754814, 13 Oct 2020You can't even give examples as related. Your exampl... moreDude, are you blind ?
Your article literally said :
"Laser-based time-of-flight cameras are part of a broader class of scannerless LIDAR, in which the entire scene is captured with each laser pulse, as opposed to point-by-point with a laser beam such as in scanning LIDAR systems."
It LITERALLY say that there are other forms of LiDAR than ToF.

"part of a broader class of scannerless LIDAR"
"broader class of"
"part of LIDAR"

It literally contradict everything you said and confirm everything I said about ToF and LiDAR, which is that ToF is ONE WAY of scanning and LiDAR is a type/class/group (or whatever you want to call it) of scanners using light as mean of scanning.

[deleted post]Waw, you can't understand sarcasms, dude, I don't even know what to say at this point.
You asked me for "key methods", which by itself isn't a particular things like an "element" is, proof :
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/spellcheck/english?q=key+method return no results, as a counter exemple, "key element" does : https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/key-element

Meaning of "key" : "The key person or thing in a group is the most important one."
It is NOT stated it is the elementary/base, it is the MOST IMPORTANTS, and active stereo IS one of the most important method as it is widely used, perhaps not as much as ToF or Structured Light, but still one of the most important.

You literally (and that is the proper use of the word literally here) asked me to tell you the most important methods, which is exactly what I did, except if there is some widely used that I don't know and I haven't listed.

  • AnonD-754814

Demongornot, 13 Oct 2020Oh yeah, this mean that water, which is a mix of hydrogen a... moreYou can't even give examples as related.
Your examples suck like you.
Read the first line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera

  • AnonD-754814

Demongornot, 13 Oct 2020How can someone be so dense ? You are denser than Osmium ! ... moreHere are a lot of articles where it's clearly indicated ToF and LiDAR share technology.
First one is a LiDAR manufacturers website
https://www.silc.com/
This website is great for these type of explanation.
https://www.microcontrollertips.com/lidar-and-time-of-flight-part-1-introduction-faq/
https://www.microcontrollertips.com/lidar-and-time-of-flight-part-2-operation/#:~:text=The%20LIDAR%20system%20begins%20with,continuous%20wave%20of%20modulated%20light.

Even Wikipedia has same opinion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-of-flight_camera

You proved your ignorance last time when you said Pixel 4 and iPhone face ID are LiDAR.
Man ! You did prove your ignorance further when you said Structured Light LiDAR.
They are different things but you think they're same.
Haha. Your Ignorance has no limit.

AnonD-754814, 13 Oct 2020Man ! I don't care if you're angry or not. Yeah... moreOh yeah, this mean that water, which is a mix of hydrogen and dioxygen don't exist, that's right, you are so smart, I am sorry to be so stupid, how could I have thought for a second that water was a real thing.

"I never said LiDAR is a different method."
Even your fricking sentences don't make any senses.

Let me translate this "ALL LIDAR USE TOF TECHNOLOGY BECAUE ALL LIDAR HAS ToF SENSOR. If it doesn't have ToF sensor it's not a LiDAR."

All Vehicles are cars because all vehicles work like cars, if it isn't a car its not a vehicle.
So I guess motorcycles are made of water then.

  • AnonD-754814

Demongornot, 13 Oct 2020Yeah, sure, not saying the exact right name, and saying one... moreMan ! I don't care if you're angry or not.
Yeah probably I'm showing stupidity because I am endlessly arguing with a empty headed guy.
Didn't you teacher in school tech you that,
Hybrid thing's aren't key things.
When I say , name an element you say "Hydrogen" or other elements. When you say Hydrogen per Oxide. That proves your ignorance. Even now you're backing your theory stupidly.
I never said LiDAR is a different method. Don't start your lying accusation again.

There is a universal truth for you.

ALL LIDAR USE TOF TECHNOLOGY BECAUE ALL LIDAR HAS ToF SENSOR. If it doesn't have ToF sensor it's not a LiDAR.

AnonD-754814, 13 Oct 2020You're naming it wrong way. 1st one is "Binocula... moreYeah, sure, not saying the exact right name, and saying one of the common important method that use a combinaison of two is your excuse, who the hell do you think Hybrid cars are in their own category and not just regarded as thermal or electric ?
Because using a combinaison of two fricking things create a new things, like your stupidity and my patience who have now been used create anger.

I fricking answered you, LiDAR is NOT A METHOD, it is a fricking NAME, like a "Vehicle" which doesn't have a specific amount of wheels, a BICYCLE do because it is its NAME.

LiDAR = light detection and ranging = Using damn light to detect and get range = a name that consider anything using light to detect surfaces and get their range as part of it > Structured light = use light to detect and compute range.
That how fricking Etymology work.

AnonD-754814, 13 Oct 2020Your source doesn't say anything about your claim. ... moreHow can someone be so dense ? You are denser than Osmium !
He LITERALLY explained how the LiDAR (everyone call it a LiDAR) work, and described exactly how a ToF work, proving it is a ToF type LiDAR, and it DOES work in real type, otherwise no one would be able to play live games with it.

Listen, there are tons of contradicting sources on the subject, many agree that LiDAR isn't only about lasers, some does, some consider structured light as a different thing and only for 3D scanning, other consider it as a LiDAR, and seeing how SIMPLE FRICKING FACT you only have to read 3 damn lines are too hard for you to understand, I won't go and try to make you understand something that complicated.
NO ! TOF ARE LIDARS, not the opposite, LiDAR = Using LIGHT to measure distance, ToF = ONE WAY of using LIGHT or something else to measure distance, how hard it is to understand ?

  • AnonD-754814

Demongornot, 13 Oct 2020There are MANY methods, I surely don't know them all (... moreYou're naming it wrong way.
1st one is "Binocular stereo vision". Not exactly what you said but sounds similar indeed.
Secondly you don't have to mix 2 methods when i said include key method.

Anyway you ignored the second question.
LiDAR is based on which method or mix of which methods(if you think) ?

  • AnonD-754814

Demongornot, 13 Oct 2020CNET would give accurate info ? Dude, literally anyone coul... moreYour source doesn't say anything about your claim.

According to your theory.
You're saying structured Light 3D mapping is Lidar.

Then I must say, you are completely ignorant.
I said yesterday that Pixel and iPhone are using Triangulation 3D mapping, which is one type of Structure Light 3D mapping. That is not LiDAR. LiDAR is in ToF category.

AnonD-754814, 13 Oct 2020Structured Light 3D depth mapping and ToF different. At l... moreThere are MANY methods, I surely don't know them all (I never pretended to by the way).
I can list :
*Stereo camera.
*Active stereo camera (which is a mix between structured light and passive stereo camera).
*Structured light.
*Time of Flight.
*Photogrammetry.
*AI depth calculation.
Each of those exist in many possible implementations, for example Time of Flight can be either a single point and the scanner move, or it project a point of cloud and each of them have their timing calculated independently, there is also single line of multiple dots that perform scans, etc and all those can have multiple ways of working, the two main and most common (there might be others) are pure timing and phase shift (which also rely on timing).

There are also a lot using other things than light, ultrasound, mmWaves, even physical contact, but those aren't relevant in the subject.

LiDAR since it encompass everything that use light is clearly part of Active stereo, Structured light and Time of Flight, one may argue that passive stereo is LiDAR though.

I won't bother linking sources as you apparently don't check them or don't understand them or ignore their informations.

Also, indeed LiDAR isn't based on Structured light, it also isn't based on ToF, it is the opposite, both ARE LiDAR.
Once again you consider that "LiDAR" is a specific technology like "Oled" is while I keep explaining and showed you evidences that it is only a type, like a "Monitor" and that many technology can make them like "LCD", "Plasma", "CRT", "Oled", "GIMOD", "Led" (miniled/microled).
It isn't because it sound like RADAR that it have anything to do with it, in fact even Radars have multiple working principles.

AnonD-754814, 13 Oct 2020I didn't gave any facts because I wasn't giving t... moreCNET would give accurate info ? Dude, literally anyone could write new articles and they often contain mistakes, like this guy from PhoneArena who said that any camera did a better job than Macro while he was taking close-up and clearly not macro :
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Dear-phone-makers-STOP-putting-macro-cameras-on-phones_id125834

You want sources, ok :
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/10611/
I needed to dig for finding that one as most info aren't usually found publicly accessible as they have no need to write them, so here is Apple staff explaining for developers AR stuff, and at 15:42 a guy CLEARLY explained that the new LiDAR on the iPAD work using ToF as it measure time, and it clearly said it do it multiple times per seconds and everyone know that it run in real time.

So this clearly disprove what you say that LiDAR are continuous ToF.
Thanks you.

AnonD-754814, 13 Oct 2020Looks like our debate needs a "judge". Or it... moreNo, you just need to stop ignoring facts and more than reliable sources like bloody LiDAR makers that you someone consider as non-relevant.

  • AnonD-754814

Demongornot, 13 Oct 2020Because : 1) I don't want this to last for a while wi... moreStructured Light 3D depth mapping and ToF different.
At least we agree on one thing.
But LiDAR isn't based on structured light 3D depth mapping.

By including this topic you've helped a lot.
Now we can wrap it up real soon.

Lets start.

Tell me how many key methods are used to do 3D mapping and LiDAR falls in which method ?