Weekly poll results: zoom cameras need to start at 3x at least, variable focal length is preferred

12 September 2021
Maybe in the future the best phones will have fewer camera modules, not more.

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With nearly all smartphones now using high Megapixel Quad Bayer or Nona Bayer sensor for the main camera, 3x zoom is definitely the right sweet spot. Personally, I prefer smartphones with dual telephoto cameras, so I would love to see a dual periscope type with variable focal length since that would give true flexibility while maintaining the same photo quality across the zoom range.

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    • Anonymous
    • Dpc
    • 12 Sep 2021

    Anonymous, 12 Sep 2021Redmi note or realme user I suppose. (Always the ones who h... moreBut he clearly praised Apple and Samsung in his post

      For me a single 5x optical zoom behind a big sensor is enough.
      It does a great job at 10x too.

      The images at 10x are as good, if not better in low light than dedicated 10x optical zoom on the S21 Ultra which sits behind a smaller sensor.

      For 2x-3x, main lens with big 1.4 micron pixel size does a great job on my Mi 11 Ultra.

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        • AnonD-909757
        • pZV
        • 12 Sep 2021

        Anonymous, 12 Sep 2021Dude. People say it is impossible because it is obvious. ... more1: I am talking about continuous zoom itself.
        2: There are such things as DOUBLE REFLECTION periscope, where the sensor lay flat.
        3: There are other ways to make a large sensor smaller, from non-flat to split or multiple smaller sensors with a basic of interferometry.
        4: I'd take a 15mm thick phone with a great camera over a 8mm crappy one ANYDAY.

        It isn't because, YOU, can't find an EASY and OBVIOUS solution, that there aren't any other, better or more complex ones.
        And here I am not talking about near science fiction like my fictional concept phone who basically has two APS-C and a complex periscope layout with a complicated but possible flat 90° wide reflector :
        https://imgur.com/gallery/ykYfaa6
        https://i.imgur.com/5SiAaIF.png

        I am talking about totally doable stuff that already exist in other domains.
        By the way, the REAL term "periscope" is about TWO reflections, not ONE.
        https://i.ytimg.com/vi/prxP0rNmaSA/maxresdefault.jpg

        It isn't because the smartphone industry, which is the absolute supreme master of poor decisions since 2017, took the one reflection route, and that now everyone will follow without even reconsidering once if it is a good idea or if things can be done better, simply because they mindlessly copy each others, that there couldn't be anything better if the community didn't had such a bad influence on smartphones.

          • ?
          • Anonymous
          • LkA
          • 12 Sep 2021

          [deleted post]Redmi note or realme user I suppose. (Always the ones who hate the most Samsung, Apple, Sony and Lg)
          Too bad you buy these because cant get decent phone.

          Oh, so sorry your chinese OEM needs to buy the periscope because cant create one.
          This is what happens when device is 100% third party tech.
          At least xperia is full of own tech.

          And does better than S21+ with similar setup.
          Much better than Oppo/OnePlus.

          Speaking of 1+, do not buy nord 2.
          3 devices exploded in India already.

            • ?
            • Anonymous
            • LkA
            • 12 Sep 2021

            Anonymous, 12 Sep 2021He/she is right. A P40 Pro Plus or S21 Ultra don't hav... moreEven OEMs call it zoom, when they know it is wrong term.

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              • Anonymous
              • LkA
              • 12 Sep 2021

              AnonD-909757, 12 Sep 2021This comment session is the perfect summary of why we can&#... moreDude. People say it is impossible because it is obvious.
              Cell phones have limited space.

              The 1/1.33" has 12mm diagonal. It has 7,2mm x 9,6mm.
              This is the pixel area, it does not count the sensor bezels.
              There is no space to use larger sensors inside periscope.

              This is photo of GN2. See how much frame around the pixel area. Frame is almost as large as pixel area. Sensor is easily more than 13mm tall.
              https://acf.geeknetic.es/imgw/imagenes/auto/2021/2/23/ff9-image.png?f=webp

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                • Anonymous
                • gBV
                • 12 Sep 2021

                Anonymous, 12 Sep 2021Smaller sensors always have lower ISO. Do not expect 6400 ... moreIso is not a hardware specification as I explained. Even a 10mm² sensor can take Iso 100000 photos. Iso just describes how bright the jpg is (in relationship to the exposure), no matter whether the brightness was achieved by digital gain or analog gain. If you open a Iso 1600 raw file in Lightroom and adjust the brightness by +5EV, then the new Iso is actually 51200 by definition. That's why for example a Canon camera with Highlight Tone Priority has a base Iso of 200 (the brightness is increased by software) instead of 100.

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                  • Anonymous
                  • gBV
                  • 12 Sep 2021

                  captain fokou, 12 Sep 2021What are you talking about?. Huawei made a phone with 8mp 1... moreHe/she is right. A P40 Pro Plus or S21 Ultra don't have a "10x" zoom lens. It's a prime lens. Zoom lens always means that the lens can vary the focal length. The media misuses the term.
                  Furthermore, it's not a "10x" prime lens either as the focal length is not 10 times as high as the focal length of the main camera. The S21 Ultra main camera has a focal length of 6.7mm, whereas the "10x" camera only has 30.6mm instead of 67mm. That's why they need to crop /use a smaller sensor in order to achieve the "10x" field of view (using a smaller sensor is exactly the same thing as cropping a large sensor).
                  The "10x" camera doesn't even give you 10²=100 times as many pixels per object as the "1x" setting.
                  So "10x optical zoom lens" is nothing else than marketing language.

                    • ?
                    • Anonymous
                    • LkA
                    • 12 Sep 2021

                    Anonymous, 12 Sep 2021No. Iso is NOT a hardware specification. Many people don�... moreSmaller sensors always have lower ISO. Do not expect 6400 from 1/4".
                    Obviously the OEM can limit it.

                      • ?
                      • Anonymous
                      • tDP
                      • 12 Sep 2021

                      a 3.5/4x optical zoom with 64mp res should do the job, this is because at 2x the high mp quad bayer sensor already good enough to replace 12mp 2x optical zoom sensor. The quad bayer can be functioned like this :

                      in a day light situation the image will be taken in quad bayer mode to make sure you get enough detail from far away far away

                      in very contrast and challenging situation the 3.5 to 35x zoom will use binning to make sure good dynamic range, this also applied to the night time with night mode

                      choosing the 64mp with 0.7um sensor in what huawei do is a good choice, you get a slim thickness with image quality around 1.4um in binning mode, that's better than current best tele which is samsung 1.22um 10x optical tele. And with high res mode you get at 70x digital zoom with 0.7um for condition with good lighting env . If you look at p50 pro it can go head to head on par with s10 10mp 1.22um telephoto even though it using non binning for the max zoom / 100x which is amazing

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                        • Anonymous
                        • Ni0
                        • 12 Sep 2021

                        khellandros66, 12 Sep 20213x Optical with an Omnivision 64mp 1.0um sensor would be so... more8k should be standard in 2021

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                          • khellandros66
                          • kCU
                          • 12 Sep 2021

                          3x Optical with an Omnivision 64mp 1.0um sensor would be so great, essentially 16mp 2.0um with a F2.4 3x using crop zoom and stacking 6x digital with 8mp 2.0um that's still 6x at 4k30/60 for video

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                            • AnonD-909757
                            • pZV
                            • 12 Sep 2021

                            This comment session is the perfect summary of why we can't have nice things.
                            People complaining about great idea and firing up their skepticism to 120% to tell how much THEY THINK it isn't possible as if it was an absolute truth.

                            I have a better idea for you :
                            Just keep it shut and lets engineers decide by themselves if it is possible or not.

                            The ONLY thing happening when a bunch of people criticize something, is the industry getting away from it because of the negative view people have on it.
                            And this is even more of an issue in the smartphone market that is THE ONLY ONE where the industry only remove stuff if there is any glimpse of negativity toward it while totally ignoring every positively view things and highly demanded stuff, EXACTLY because this cancerous community that is the smartphone one, mainly on GSMArena with all the anonymous, act like that.

                              blue.sun, 12 Sep 202110x optical zoom in a phone was not achieved until today, e... moreWhat are you talking about?. Huawei made a phone with 8mp 10x telephoto in 2020.

                                • ?
                                • Anonymous
                                • gBV
                                • 12 Sep 2021

                                Anonymous, 12 Sep 2021Each sensor has maximum ISO it can use. Not fake value li... moreNo. Iso is NOT a hardware specification. Many people don't know this. Iso just describes how bright the jpg(!) (not raw file) is. If a smartphone manufacturer increases the brightness of a jpg (without changing exposure settings), then the Iso is higher by definition. There are two kinds of "Iso": Analog gain and digital gain. Iso is the combination of analog gain and digital gain. Digital gain is just software, so Iso is not a hardware specification.

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                                  • Anonymous
                                  • gBV
                                  • 12 Sep 2021

                                  "The periscope on that one was impressive as it covered the 28-84mm range"
                                  As I said, "28-84mm" is NOT a specification of the lens. 28-84mm tells you something about the field of view (which depends on the sensor size), the focal length was not 28-84mm, but 3.8mm-11.4mm. So having a "28-84mm field or view" is not impressive at all as every field of view can be achieved by continuously reducing the sensor area. "28-84mm" is NOT a hardware specification of the lens, this field of view range can be achieved with every smartphone camera on the market.

                                    You actually need 2 camera with good resolution. Give a UW and crop in for normal shot
                                    For zoom take 3-4 pics with a little shift and combine to get a hig resolution image. If it is 9in1 pixel binning make it 4 in1 for zoom.. you can still get an bigger pixel image

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                                      • blue.sun
                                      • 0CN
                                      • 12 Sep 2021

                                      captain fokou, 12 Sep 2021It's actually not impossible, just not ready. People s... more10x optical zoom in a phone was not achieved until today, except the Samsung zoom tragedy. What we have is not zoom.

                                        blue.sun, 12 Sep 2021This poll has shown us only one thing - people really know ... moreIt's actually not impossible, just not ready. People said the same about 10x optical in 2019

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