Motorola is launching a 200MP cameraphone in July
- C
- Coss
- X5u
- 21 Jun 2022
Prettiest phone because of nice frame decorations, camera design and 200mp nice, then 7000mah prettier
- C
- Coss
- X5u
- 21 Jun 2022
Prettiest phone because of nice frame decorations, camera design and 200mp nice, then 7000mah prettier
- ?
- Anonymous
- SHp
- 21 Jun 2022
Please somebody finally make a massive 300 gram thick and bulky NON FOLDABLE with 7inch display Ultra phone and op sensors and normal battery capacity like 7000mah. I'm sick of this trend of mi 11 6.81 alredy small display becoming even smaller in Xiaomi 12 pro. Please, I desperately want to spend some 2500$ on such device, please, please.
- Feanor12
- 0p$
- 26 May 2022
Feanor12, 26 May 2022Big sensors equals being bulky - there's no way around... moreI forgot to give this example how seamless zooming with one big sensor looked like on Nokia 808 PureView (2012, 41 MP, 1/1.2", without OIS or EIS (sadly)).
https://youtu.be/u80qkV2cRPs
PS: Good headphones recomended! 😉
- Feanor12
- 0p$
- 26 May 2022
Big sensors equals being bulky - there's no way around that, sadly.
... but I still much prefer being bulky and having big sensor (and much better photos because of that), than having slim phone with smaller sensor.
For me it's the most important sensor size - you have to capture lot of photons to begin dreaming of having good pictures. I know that algorithms and AI advanced very far - but physics is physics and I love natural photos without artificial sharpening and without 'oil painting' when pixel peeping... 😅
I had Nokia 808 PureView which had 41MP back in 2012 (yup, that's right!). And it didn't have bayer filter, but 'real pixels'. Sensor was huuuge even for today standards (1/1.2). You had option to output also 5 or 8 MP images which were made with PureView method (pixel bining) - and that was very effective in low light. Video zooming was superb and voice recording was just stunning (Nokia Rich recording with HAAC microphones - 120 db without distortion). To bad this phone didn't have OIS or any kind of video stabilization, and also imaging algorithms were quite different back in 2012. I still love Nokia 808 though with all it's candys (HDMI out (!), FM receiver and also FM transmitter (!), easy repairability (once I broke camera and online ordered 30€ camera module and just opened phone and switched easily - like a LEGO, lol), ...). Anyway - here is short recording that I shot with this phone.
► Nokia 808 PureView (2012) clip: https://youtu.be/2I20gdEv_94
(good headphones recommended)
Nokia (HMD actually) tried different approach later with Nokia 9 PureView (2019) and was build with cooperation of company Light (google Light camera).
This phone has 5x 12 MP, f/1.8, 28mm (wide), 1/2.9", 1.25µm (2x RGB & 3x B/W cameras).
Result was 12 MP shot (made with all cameras simultaneously (!)), HDR was really awsome, and this phone had best RAW image capability in my opinion - I didn't believe how much details I can pull out of images - but sadly - default JPG processing was rly bad so you kind of need to process RAW yourself.
... but this phone had problems with jpg processing, no options for zoom whatsoever (lot of cameras but all only 12 MP and same caracteristics), battery was dried very soon if taking photos (using all cameras and lot of processing to combine all data for each shot). Processing of images also took lot of time. But still - it was nice try. And it was very slim phone what lot of people (not me) want.
I had many phones, currently Xiaomi Mi Note 10 (2019). I gave Nokia 9 to brother's wife, but Nokia 808 is still rocking and I still make some shots from time to time with it. It still capture more detail in than my Xiaomi, and voice recording much better - but it still has (dead) Symbian OS - too bad they killed that os, it has many good properties and less resource hungry and had true multitasking.
- B
- BK
- jxG
- 26 May 2022
But maybe at least make your phone waterproof?
It is quite essential....... I'll get one if it is waterproof.
- L
- Lccy
- n1k
- 26 May 2022
I do understand what Nick means and multiple users are trying to claim an increase in luminance resolution with a quad or Nona Bayer sensor in unbinned mode, I am disputing that.
While it's true that each pixel records different values that are valuable, they are single chrominance values, and rely on a process called demosaicing which analyses the pixels in the surround colour filters to predict the other chrominance and luminance values.
Some full resolution shots from Honor and Xiaomi do look crisper and more natural because their processing is sub-par, as for the balcony blinds, you get a false pattern because of insufficient RGB sampling, as in because the Bayer filter contains more pixels, the next colour in which the information is required to interpolate the full pixel values is further away, so the false pattern on the balcony blind is an alias.
Here is an example of a 27mp image binned from 108mp quad Bayer resolving the balcony blinds.
https://m.gsmarena.com/motorola_edge_plus-review-2112p5.php
I used the phone finder to filter all the 108mp phones that gsmarena has reviewed for example the honor 50 which has 9 to 1 binning.
https://m.gsmarena.com/honor_50-review-2348p5.php
The balcony patterns are false, the reviewer doesn't think there's meaningful increases in detail.
This makes me more confident that the 200mp sensor with 16 to 1 binning is not going to look much better whether you bin down to 50mp or output 200mp.
- L
- Life Of Sin
- u5k
- 25 May 2022
Lccy, 24 May 2022"By "full" luminance resolution, I'm ta... moreNick is clearly comparing levels of detail from binned bayer output and full resolution remosaic'd output. You're mixing up comments from many users and treating them as if they all came from one user, and your response feels off the table.
Each pixel records different values which contain higher noise as a whole but are nevertheless valuable. Notice how full resolution shots from some mid range Honor or Xiaomi phones look noticeably crisper and resolve patterns more accurately than their regular 12MP shots on gsmarena's usual balcony or building shots.
Dividing each pixel into multiple ones of a smaller size would not magically create less noisy image. SNR is determined by the effective pixel pitch so a 0.8 micron 108MP quad bayer sensor would be just as noisy as a 1.6 micron bayer 27MP sensor when the former was using a binning mode to output a 27MP image. If the former was using full resolution mode, the output would be noiser due to increased read noise, which would drag the image quality down at higher sensitivity settings.
- ?
- Anonymous
- p37
- 24 May 2022
The problem with these huge sensors, is you must know how to use them properly.
"great power comes great responsibility"....
Not sure give all Motorola past, if they are up to the this task...
Motorola user
- L
- Lccy
- n1c
- 24 May 2022
"By "full" luminance resolution, I'm talking about an effective resolution of Quad Bayer *while using a normal Bayer filter as a baseline*. I know a monochrome sensor has a higher luminance resolution compared to a Bayer counterpart, but that is nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make."
The effective luminance resolution of quad Bayer while using a standard Bayer as a baseline is not much different because the demosaicing algorithm still has to rely on the neighbouring groups of pixels to create the full luminance values for each pixel, and the groups are further away than with a conventional Bayer filter. For the demosaic algorithm for quad Bayer ,or what the manufacturers call remosaic, when you have different values for the pixels within the colour filter, is it noise or valuable information?
""sixteen to one Bayer filter is that noise is random, and by enjoying multiple pixels for each Bayer filter, the noise is averaged across several pixels"
That's not an advantage of using a 4/9/16-in-1 binning sensor since each pixel will capture more noise due to their smaller sizes to begin with."
Using smaller pixels doesn't create more noise when downsized, at least that is the argument, instead because noise is random, by having multiple pixels in a colour filter, you reduce the chance of rogue pixels contaminating an entire colour filter.
"https://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=4&idPhone1=10737&idCamera2=300788
Finer resolved lines on the 50MP photo, enough said."
Look at the underground map, how much more legible is the text on the 50mp compared to say the 64mp Bayer filter on the s21? Finer lines are a result of aliasing.
- L
- Lccy
- n1c
- 24 May 2022
Mobilemaster, 24 May 2022If it is done right, you can have extra details. Just see h... moreYou can do things like multi-shot pixel shift to increase the resolution especially for zooming, so Google's super Res zoom was limited on the pixel 3 by a standard Bayer filter but pixel shift is more effective with the pixel 6. Vivo also use pixel shift as does realme in zoom with their quad Bayer sensors.
I believe marketing is the reason, it's also not that much more difficult or expensive to increase the pixel count of these sensors, but it is more expensive to install a conventional Bayer filter over such a dense sensor not to mention the loss of light.
DSLR and mirrorless cameras mostly don't bother with anything other than a standard Bayer sensor, I know of two implementations, the new omd camera which does so for autofocus, a micro lens focuses on four pixels which share the same colour filter, the Sony a7s iii did so because it's rumoured it was cheaper for Sony to use an existing sensor, you cannot output 48mp on the a7s iii.
Sony don't even bother to use quad Bayer sensors on their only smartphones.
- I
- IpsDisplay
- 4m}
- 24 May 2022
jason, 23 May 2022Can we please move beyond the megapixel race, can we focus ... moreWhy should we move away from the pixel race
Why should we monopolize our approach to any pursuit?
Let there be as many pathways as possible so innovation can have a healthy web or route of options
This is prime opportunity to test how efficient we can make an ISP when it's crunching some serious numbers
Besides the world of tech is moving towards heavy data processing
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- Anonymous
- p37
- 24 May 2022
As long as they work properly on their post processing image software Otherwise will be pretty much business as usual as it was with the 108MP sensor
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- Nick Tegrataker
- Xpf
- 24 May 2022
Lccy, 24 May 2022The full luminance resolution is not there because the colo... moreBy "full" luminance resolution, I'm talking about an effective resolution of Quad Bayer *while using a normal Bayer filter as a baseline*. I know a monochrome sensor has a higher luminance resolution compared to a Bayer counterpart, but that is nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make.
"sixteen to one Bayer filter is that noise is random, and by enjoying multiple pixels for each Bayer filter, the noise is averaged across several pixels"
That's not an advantage of using a 4/9/16-in-1 binning sensor since each pixel will capture more noise due to their smaller sizes to begin with.
https://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=4&idPhone1=10737&idCamera2=300788
Finer resolved lines on the 50MP photo, enough said.
- M
- Mobilemaster
- 3gj
- 24 May 2022
Lccy, 24 May 2022It cannot be much better, it can only be very slightly bett... moreThen what is the point to make such a sensor come on? Samsung will not be the first to use a 200 MP sensor, but they will use it too next year.
- M
- Mobilemaster
- 3gj
- 24 May 2022
Lccy, 24 May 2022The problem is a 50mp file takes up more storage and is slo... moreIf it is done right, you can have extra details. Just see how amazing is the S22 Ultra when you take full resolution shots. It is so much better than the predecessor. I know this is different, but what is the point to have such a larger MP count if can not help at all?
- L
- Lccy
- n1c
- 24 May 2022
AnonF-1006353, 24 May 2022Wrong. It gives more extra detail under good light conditio... moreThe 64mp sensor in the s21 5g uses a conventional Bayer filter hence the higher resolution in 64mp mode.
The realme 7 pro uses a quad Bayer filter, from the link on the comparison chart you shared with me, it clearly looks worse than the s21 5g as in if you look at the text on the London underground map, it's nowhere near as legible as on the s21 5g, and the 12mp from the s21 5g might look a little worse because of excessive sharpening, but the difference in resolution is minor.
I still stand by what I say, the 50mp mode will not look much difference to the 12.5mp mode of the Motorola unless it uses a yet to be announced quad Bayer 200mp sensor. As it stands though, with 16 to 1 binning, it's not going to look much better.
- S
- Sind19
- 3YL
- 24 May 2022
Carol, 24 May 2022You complain about mpx racing but want 8k video-shooting...... moreSuper easy you do not have to be a master mind, more megapixels means more digital zoom, hence less cameras put in a phone, hence lower price.
Imagine be able to use a super wide angle camera, and thanks to the 200MP not only have like 10x zoom, but be a smooth zoom without lags or jumps between the cameras.
Yea the feeling may not be 100% the same, but certainly will make a whole new level, allowing us to have a slimmer phones and les bulky and weighty
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- AnonF-1006353
- gD$
- 24 May 2022
Lccy, 24 May 2022The problem is a 50mp file takes up more storage and is slo... moreWrong. It gives more extra detail under good light conditions, if done right. But the 64mp ones were better, less mosaicing and sharpening artefacts, just check the s21 tele zoom 64mp in photo compare tool, or the realme 7 pro in 64mp mode, and scale them to the same size - it's night and day against the lousy 12mp res ones:
https://m.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=4&idPhone2=10626&idCamera1=300744&idCamera3=300721
Regarding space, yeah, something in between would be more suitable (20 to 40mp). So 50 or 64mp mode, if needed, are perfectly fine. 108 or even 200 are probably overkill, but the binned down 27mp ones on the mi 11 are great!
It would already be a big improvement if they'd go for 80mp and bin down to 20mp on flagships, that would be the sweet spot. With the option to downsample further for those who need it.
While keeping the sensor size big enough, of course (>1/1.3")