Counterclockwise: the rise (and impending doom) of the 3.5mm audio jack

17 November 2017
From proprietary COM ports through a short flirtation with 2.5mm to USB-C and beyond.

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  • AnonD-80334
  • Qs3
  • 21 Nov 2017

FinnishInquisition, 21 Nov 2017The screen to body ratio has nothing to do with built-in po... moreAndy Rubin mentioned large bezels were due to 3.5 mm jack at the launch event of essential phone so yeah that's why i brought the screen to body ratio in the debate.

It's not same as CD floppy comparison, floppies could not hold the data in the amounts a CD could have so CD still was a better in significant way. It was expensive but it was better even at the time of transition. This is not the case with 3.5mm jack. bluetooth has been around for a while. wireless audio can add some features but the audio quality largely a factor of DAC. You put better onboard DAC you get better audio. No need to have a different port. Noise cancelling is not required in everyday scenario and not required by all.

People can have better inbuilt DAC and Amps (LG V30 and Samsung Wolfson DAC are some examples), technically having audio routing through USB can give advantage of custom DAC, but having a 3.5 mm port does not get in your way if you still wanna use USB C port for audio. That jack is about convenience for a lot of people.

And Pixel last year had an audio jack(even made fun of apple) and this year they ditched it while launching pixel buds on the side..... Far too convenient to ignore what purpose is, people can choose to see it the other way as claimed by the manufacturers but I'd rather see it for what it is.

Again, since samsung/lg deploy top quality dac and keep port doesn't mean google has to, but BoM and manufacturing costs haven't changed much due to a jack(not to a point impacting price anyway) or the lack thereof, it's a convenient excuse for them to ditch the jack and put their accessories for sale. Off-course you are free to look at it the way you want. I can't get past that Airpods and pixel buds launch the same year.

    • ?
    • Anonymous
    • RI8
    • 21 Nov 2017

    FinnishInquisition, 21 Nov 2017All your audio from a smartphone is digital, and converted ... moreDummy you already have internal DAC to drive the loudspeaker why would i need another external DAC to drive my headphones?? Internal interference is BS people are having great internal DAC since the N91, Walkman series, then there's the wolfsons in galaxy series, htc and lg all have great DACs.. Just because you can find a way around does not mean it is better.. By your logic the next step is to remove the internal DAC with the loudspeaker altogether.. Because you already have external DAC and that will leave the phone with just beeps and boops.. HAHAHA now do you get it?? Removing the 3.5mm jack is a step backward whichever way you look at it..

      Anonymous, 21 Nov 2017Bidirectional is not the same as circular. No, you can't ... moreYou asked if you could insert it blindly, and you can. Whether it's too mentally challenging for some people to use a port that isn't circular is their own problem. The complaints that you can't charge and used wired headphones at the same time are completely moot, as not only does fast charging and long battery lives make it unnecessary, but you can also use wireless charging or a splitter if you're that 0.01 % that need to do it.
      As for your "third point", the USB-C standard was only announced 3 years ago, and USB Audio Class 3.0 was only released 1 year ago. Do you expect every single electronic device in the world to have USB-C already, or retroactively? That's what the temporary dongles are for. Or just get Bluetooth for things like your car - it makes it more convenient anyway.

      And why would I need multiple headphones or dongles? I use exactly 1 pair of wired headphones for nicer listening with my smartphone and 1 pair of wireless sport headphones. Why would I need more? Why would I need a ton of dongles? You're making up issues where there are none.

        Reading up on this hot topic there is no real gain in dropping the 3.5mm Jack bar to make the phone thinner.

        You are only passing the buck to another device to decode as opposed to the chipset on the mainland then transfer to the audio Jack.

        Not my cup of tea really and I'm not happy that a integral part of a device has been swiped from the list yet consumers font see the cost benefit and only the pain of either one or the other syndrome...... to charge or not to charge.

          • ?
          • Anonymous
          • srQ
          • 21 Nov 2017

          Many android phone (including mine) already have an ability to output digital audio via usb interface.
          Then why aren't we seeing people using usb headphones?

          Because nobody actually cares.

          Face it, people don't care about your superior "USB-C" audio.

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            • Anonymous
            • srQ
            • 21 Nov 2017

            FinnishInquisition, 20 Nov 2017Is understanding causality that hard? I said CD's and the i... moreBidirectional is not the same as circular.
            No, you can't charge and listen when you have only one port at your disposal (without dongles).
            And third that was exactly my point, when there was one unified jack for audio, you could have done that, now you can't. Get it?

            What are you going to do? Buy and carry multiple headphones? Or multiple dongles?

              AnonD-80334, 21 Nov 2017Yet Note 8, S8, LG V30 are some examples of phones with bet... moreThe screen to body ratio has nothing to do with built-in ports. I'm not sure why you're even bringing that up. And as I've said before, just because one manufacturer can or want to do something doesn't mean everyone has the same ability or focus.

              This is actually a perfect comparison to the removal of the 3.5" floppy disk drive. People were using dongles back then too, they lost the ability to quickly move data onto a portable drive to take with them (had to send via internet) and CD's were far more expensive and nobody had a CD-burner (prohibitively expensive). You also couldn't use them for storage like the floppy disks. There was also talk of a conspiracy and it just being a move to make more money back then as well.

              To think audio quality is going to be worse with USB-C is nonsensical. Juan Bagnell did an audio review where he showed the Apple and Google external DAC's exceeded the quality of the built-in DAC's in many devices. Heck, the Pixel 2 external DAC was far better than the Pixel 1 internal DAC and had a more powerful output than the Note 8. And the intention is not to keep using dongles, but to switch over to USB-C headphones.

              With USB-C audio you get hand-picked and tuned DAC's and amplifiers for your headphones, you get active noise cancellation, you get on-board equalizers, you no longer have to use bad built-in DAC/amps. And all of this while saving space in the smartphone and removing a limiting factor to design, layouts and waterproofing.

              So to answer your question: Yes, it is better for listening to audio with portable devices.

                Anonymous, 21 Nov 2017Your comparison is wrong.. CD and floppy are both digital d... moreAll your audio from a smartphone is digital, and converted into an analogue signal by a DAC. It doesn't matter if it's a 3.5 mm port or a USB-C port, the only difference between the two is where the DAC and amplifier is located. With USB-C headphones it's located in the headphones, free from any interference from the smartphone internals.

                And all manufacturers will eventually drop the 3.5 mm port. It's unsuitable for portable mobile devices, as we strive for sleeker devices and have a port that can handle the functions of the 3.5 mm port. Also, the Nokia 9 that got leaked had also ditched the 3.5 mm port, so there's that.

                  Thesis86, 21 Nov 2017There have been audiophiles who have completed objective so... moreLink those blind comparisons of USB-C to 3.5 mm vs 3.5 mm, please. Or USB-C only for that matter. Manufacturers like Bowers & Wilkins, JBL and Libratone have already started producing high-quality USB-C headsets with active noise cancellation and more.

                  Also I don't think you know what "universal" means. "Universal" doesn't mean "will be around forever". No universal standard is intended to be permanent. The 3.5 mm port didn't become standard on phones until 2009, and specifically the TRRS port didn't become universal on phones until 2012. If the USB-C port is around for another 20 years, I'm perfectly fine with that. I don't expect to keep electronic devices around for that long.

                  And no, I'm not worried about the wear on the USB-C port. It's rated at 10 000 cycles, compared to 5000 cycles for the 3.5 mm port.

                    This dilemma will remain for many years until we don't think about charging anymore, probably with phones with very power efficient electronics, high capacity batteries, and charges wirelessly from a distance. It will continuously have a charge as it trickle charges in places where there is Wi-Fi. Simply, we don't have to plug something in, to charge it. The remaining port will be for data-video/audio.

                    For now, this is a cost saving measure from Apple because not all smartphone owners uses the jack or listens to it. There is no audio quality improvement or added value for replacing the jack with another.

                      FinnishInquisition, 20 Nov 2017The waterproofed 3.5 mm ports are 900-1000 mm³. The po... morehow its done? can't deal with the heat?
                      You claim insane things for MOBILE devices, made for when we are mobile. The 3.5 jack is as important as an mp3 player inside a MOBILE device, that's it! No dongles, no add ons! You are brainwashed to believe that removing features is the future. Seriously that's worrisome! Ipx fails in reviews. They removed the headphone jack, now the home button and the fingerprint scanner. Next year the camera.. next year the screen etc. its laughable as it is. Apple is done.

                      usbc is what? it has the same factionality as what? Except no, it doesn't and never will. Good luck trying to charge your phone and listen to music at the same time via headphones. Good luck plugging a good pair of noise cancelling ones who require no add ons like dongles (like seriously.. a dongle? that's pathetic) to work as they should. Good luck calling it a flagship even when a midrange beats it in usability.

                      You have no case here. xperia z3+ is a waterproof phone right? and its 6,9mm right? how a waterproofed 3.5 jack is 7mm when it obviously fits in a smaller size than it? And if we take away the glass panels of z3+ then the 3.5 jack should be 6mm at most to fit, not 7.. You can read right? NOT 7.
                      Also where did you read that a waterproofed 3.5 jack is 7mm? Source or won't happen :)

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                        • AnonD-80334
                        • 0dr
                        • 21 Nov 2017

                        FinnishInquisition, 20 Nov 2017The waterproofed 3.5 mm ports are 900-1000 mm³. The po... moreYet Note 8, S8, LG V30 are some examples of phones with better screen to body ratio and better waterproofing standard than iPhone 7/7 Plus, iPhone 8/ 8Plus. Not like they lacked anything in terms of hardware either. And they have a headphone jack.

                        This is not CD vs Floppy comparison, your audio through USB -C is basically going to be same as 3.5mm jack at best (if they use USB - C audio pins), or worse if used DAC on a dongle. CDs however provided a lot more storage space in similar form factor compared to floppies. So you got something better, Same thing with notebooks today, literally none of them come with CD drive because USB port was much more convenient than CD and a 2.5 inch portable drive holds 80-100 times more data than say a blue ray disk, not to mention hassle to burn CDs vs simple copy paste or deletes. Again you got something better. With audio through USB - C we are merely getting a different port for same audio which depends on dac rather than port.

                        To argue the demise of the jack is justifiable or not, first we must ask, are we getting anything better using USB - C for audio vs a headphone jack. Yes USB C can do it but is it any better for the intended purpose i.e. listening audio ?

                        Slimmest iPhone yet (6S or 6 not sure but both slimmer than current iphone breed), did come with a headphone jack. And not like Pixel 2 is any slim or smaller in terms of form factor than last year's pixel. Pixel 2 still doesn't have a headphone jack. Some how, the whole point of removal is becoming clearer to me with Air Pods or Pixel Buds, it's a push for consumer into buying their bluetooth headphones, an accessory market these manufacturers wanna grab. Apple did acquire beats for a whopping 3.5 Bn, how else are they gonna sell those wireless headphones?

                          • ?
                          • Anonymous
                          • IV8
                          • 21 Nov 2017

                          Anonymous, 20 Nov 2017"This year only 39 of the Top 50 use the formerly ubiquitou... moreBecause in the top 50 are Apple and a lot of Apple wannabes.. That's why you find many androids with missing 3.5mm jack there.. If you see the market 99.9% of Android from high to low end all have 3.5mm jack.. Lazy GSMArena from hundreds of phones released each year you can only compare 50 phone data??

                            • ?
                            • Anonymous
                            • IV8
                            • 21 Nov 2017

                            FinnishInquisition, 20 Nov 2017Is understanding causality that hard? I said CD's and the i... moreYour comparison is wrong.. CD and floppy are both digital data.. That's why CD can replace floppy and flash drive can replace CD.. But 3.5mm jack is analog and USB-C/lightning is digital.. USB-C/lightning can never replace 3.5mm jack.. They can only force you to use external crappy DAC and waste the internal DAC because you already have internal DAC to drive your speakers.. So NO.. 3.5mm jack in phones will survive because NOKIA, SAMSUNG, LG and SONY all support 3.5mm jack.. The chinese Apple clones can do whatever they want but Android will stay with 3.5mm jack

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                              • Troi
                              • 4wc
                              • 21 Nov 2017

                              Thesis86, 21 Nov 2017There have been audiophiles who have completed objective so... moreI agree with you. a dedicated port for audio is still way better than the universal output of some kind nor the wireless kind.

                                Anonymous, 20 Nov 2017Funny, watching people around me i see at least 70% using w... moreGood luck
                                Your flagship 3.55mm hope is on the Korean OEMs

                                May the lagwiz be with you!

                                  The lightning earphone connector is fragile than 3.5mm earphone jack. I would worry if the tiny connector pin gets scratch would it affect the listening experience?! I can't take care the cable like a baby, 3.5mm jack still has a big rod compare to tiny pins.

                                    FinnishInquisition, 19 Nov 2017At what point did I claim 3.5 mm ports on laptops was impos... moreThere have been audiophiles who have completed objective sound tests that compared Bluetooth, USB-C to 3.5mm and 3.5mm continues to win out. It is not an inflexible technology that has not grown since its inception. USB-C has the "potential" to do more. But how has that been working thus far? So far, only HTC has actually gave a care about sound without 3.5mm. The LG V30 currently is the phone with the best sound and it has a headphone jack. None of the phones without the jack comes close to what LG V30. All I see this as is a burden to customers.

                                    Your admission that USB-A has been around for years actually supports my argument as to why it is pointless to replace the jack. Why does the headphone jack have to be sacrificed for Type C? USB-C will become the new USB-A and some other standard will come. We've been hearing for years "this is the port that will be universal" only for another port to come out. Plus, aren't you worried about the physical wear of the Type C port if everything is being used for it? I would be.

                                      So far I can't imagine a phone without 3.5mm. It is perfect way to listen music with best quality. If Apple does what they do, does not mean it is for the best and granted. I will support companies only who will stick with 3.5mm because it is stupid idea to remove it and follow apple trends, companies like HTC are typical Apple copycats, has no originality or innovation just follows what other companies do without even thinking. That's why HTC is dying and companies like Samsung is thriving, don't follow anyone, innovate and lead

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                                        • Profit
                                        • niM
                                        • 20 Nov 2017

                                        Didn't GSM Arena tell you at at the end of the article? WE want you - the loser - to replace batteries even faster. WE Have To profit even more. And while you get blind at the e-shit in your hands, we get to entertain ourselves on our yachts.

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