Huawei Mate 40-series might get a 108MP main camera with 9P lens

13 June 2020
A special free-form lens should improve picture quality by a bunch.

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  • AnonD-947580

This sounds wonderful - a new lens that corrects distorsion. I have full trust in Huaweii on the camera front. They are a force to be reckoned with. I wonder how good the quality of the photos will be from this phone. Does anyone know if 108MP shots will have loading times when zooming in on them?

AnonD-754814, 29 Jun 2020Well, Bailing out suits you. Definitely you should do tha... more"You stupidly gave a example of the pro mode"
"And if we take your Pro mode example."
When did I ever talk about Pro mode??? Can you quote it please?

"picture tricks"
? What do you even mean by this?

"Compatibility?"
Already addressed in my previous comment, and I'm not going to explain myself twice.

"You clearly gave example of Mate 20 being better"
Nope, I already explained in detail what I meant when I had brought up Mate 20 Pro and View 20 and how you misinterpreted it in my previous comment. Read again, please.

"Care to explain why does it has a mediocre rating?"
Which part did you find mediocre? Please don't tell me you just looked at the overall score.. I don't know what assumption you have behind this statement, and I can't explain a damn thing about this matter when I don't share the same value with you regarding it.

As for Android Authority's comparison that you linked: Even though the author of the article is trying to make it look like he's comparing different SoCs, what he is doing is in fact a mere comparison between each DEVICE, especially in the "Heat and sustainable performance" bit. Their throttling behaviours depend on not only the amount of heat produced by the chips themselves but also the cooling solution that dissipates heat away from them. Back to the View 20 example that I gave you, IF they had conducted the test using View 20 instead of Mate 20 Pro, the throttling section of this article would've shown a massively different result despite using the same Kirin 980, due to the simple fact that on View 20 has a better cooling.

"Well, Bailing out suits you"
Yeah, and it would suit anyone who is having a decent life with a job to do and a family to support, and not being able to waste dozens of hours on online arguments that he/she knows will never end. You see how much shorter this comment is compared to the last one? I'm ready to bail at any time, and I only replied to this comment of yours because it seemed to me that you were making stuffs up about what I said in the past.

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 29 Jun 2020Sorry, I meant that you said Kirin 980 throttles by 55%, no... moreWell, Bailing out suits you.
Definitely you should do that.
As you mentioned about the zoom thing of S20 ultra.

Don't we mean the Auto mode all the time when we talk about photos ?
I thought we're talking about the Auto Mode. Also Auto Mode is generally tested while reviewing a phone.
You stupidly gave a example of the pro mode.
The regular mode has fixed zoom like I said.
Besides, even in pro mode those zooms are just digital zoom in between plus modern smartphone periscope has only a few level optical level, this isn't like the camera which has continuous optical zooming capability. I told you this before too(in that old debate).
And if we take your Pro mode example. Then there is no debate about Samsung processing or other thing. You shouldn't complain about the over sharpened and saturated color.
Samsung RAW image is just superior. That makes S20 ultra the best photography smartphone out there.

Anyway I don't really enjoy speaking with you.
About your picture tricks. Give some real table. That statistic has many color which are very similar among them. So, that's not very helping.

If Kirin 990 didn't throttle then why did it fall behind ? Compatibility ?
That's their fault too.

Now you're bailing out from your own statement too.
That's good. {We can see more of true you now.}
You clearly gave example of Mate 20 being better. Now you're just denying it. I hate them the most who in time denies their own word. Why don't you read your own replies and find out again that did you say anything about mate 20 being better or not ?

Like I said, Your problem is very clear.
You take your fact even if the opposition has major factor advantage.

also before speaking stupidly based on only one image(which tells nothing), you might wanna check the GSMARENA review of P40pro and how it's battery endurance is.
Care to explain why does it has a mediocre rating ?
Let me tell you that....----
INEFFICIENT SoC !

And before you stupidly question on my claim of throttling, you should read this,
https://www.androidauthority.com/galaxy-s10-snapdragon-855-vs-exynos-9820-967562/

AnonD-754814, 28 Jun 2020Are you on high or something ? When did I say Kirin 990 th... moreSorry, I meant that you said Kirin 980 throttles by 55%, not Kirin 990. I apologise that I wrote a wrong number there.

"About Mate 20 pro being better than P30 pro"
Ok look, I really don't give a damn about how much P30 Pro performs better or worse than Mate 20 Pro. I never said a thing about it nor made a point that Mate 20 pro is better than P30 Pro. What I was trying to say was, if you compared Mate 20 Pro and View 20's graphics performance, you would see a huge difference in % performance dip after continuous load between those two devices despite using the same SoC, hence claiming Kirin 980, the CHIPSET and NOT A PHONE, throttles by 55% would be nonsensical. I assumed that you were understanding that context because I said literally the same thing last time as well. You're simply taking it all wrong.

I don't need you to lecture me about the clock speed of the 5G variant of Kirin 990, either. I'm saying it's more efficient because there are numbers that suggest so.
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/15603/SPEC-2006.png
You get virtually identical CPU performance on both 4G and 5G variant while achieving 14% less power consumption on the latter, which is due to the latter using more advanced 7nm EUV lithography. Now, GPU has the same clock speed on both variants, with the same number of cores, and what does this suggest? On 5G variant, GPU will most likely be more power efficient than or at least just as efficient as 4G variant, as there's not much that suggests that it will be LESS efficient. If Anandtech updates the article and test results upon their full review on P40 Pro then I will tell it to you accordingly, but right now this is what we have and so I'll stick to my own deduction.

"If Kirin 980 throttles then according to that logic Kirin 990 5G must throttle. And that's what happened in that Speed Test"
This doesn't make much sense either and I'm struggling to see your "logic" here.

Your problem is that you just don't try to understand points I make. You often straight up don't read my comment and digress to irrelevant arguments that nobody ever asked for while ignoring all the contexts, and I can't be bothered to stay here if you can't properly digest what I say. I also haven't forgot that we were arguing on the digital zoom on S20 Ultra and P30 Pro and it turned out you didn't know that the intermediate zoom range actually existed on a phone camera.
I guess I'll bail out before anything like that happens again, don't blame me or think that I have run away in case I don't reply to your next comment.. because probably I won't, and it's not like you won't bring another topic that we'll have waste another 20+ hours on even if we manage to finish this particular discussion.

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 28 Jun 2020There's nothing funny about my previous comment. CPU part h... moreFirst you need to understand the basics then you should argue on that topic.
The efficiency depends on many thing. Mainly on the core clock speed.
Kirin 990 5G had to boost the clock speed(weirdly higher than safe) despite using the same old A76 core.
Did you ever think how much frequency boost Huawei did ? 2 A76 core running at 2.86 GHz are going to take up a lot of power(SD 855 had 1). A55 cores clock speed is also boosted, same with the middle A76 core. Mainly the 4 A76 cores are beyond efficiency limit. 2 A76 middle cores are going to affect the most.
If Kirin 980 throttles then according to that logic Kirin 990 5G must throttle. And that's what happened in that Speed Test.

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 28 Jun 2020"It has to render less" I never denied that part, I'm just... moreAre you on high or something ?
When did I say Kirin 990 throttles 55% ?
There is no detail test about the Kirin 990 5G. So, I don't surely know how will it perform. But theoretically we can assume the performance.
About the resolution. I said HD+. Not HD. There is a difference you know.

About Mate 20 pro being better than P30 pro.
First of all P30 pro has better battery endurance. Secondly P30 pro has better graphics performance. In AnTutu P30 pro is also better. The only thing where mate 20 post better score is Geekbench. All other are against it.
So, not really getting your point of Mate 20 pro being better.

The problem with you is when something is on your side even if it's only 1 fact you take that and ignore all other side(facts) even if they're more in numbers.

AnonD-754814, 27 Jun 2020LOL ! This is hilarious ! How can you believe that Kirin ... moreThere's nothing funny about my previous comment. CPU part has already been proven to be more efficient on 5G variant most very likely due to improved process node (7nm on 4G vs 7nm EUV on 5G), I don't really see how the latter would have higher power consumption in graphically intensive tasks when the frequency of their GPU cores are identical, unless Huawei is really messing up something. I would be surprised if this actually turned out to be the case.

AnonD-754814, 27 Jun 2020How many times do I need to tell you that when a phone cuts... more"It has to render less"
I never denied that part, I'm just saying you're making it look like it's rendering even less pixels than the phone actually does by saying the whole thing is done in HD instead of FHD resolution. That's a quite massive difference.

"no mate(with same SoC) performed better in neither performance nor efficiency than P series"
I'm sorry but am I missing anything? I just brought up Mate 20 Pro as an example for the counterargument to your claim that Kirin 990 throttles by 55% which by itself makes absolutely no sense. There I was making a point about how different cooling could affect the throttling behaviour of a chip. So what are you trying to say here about throttling?

As for the graphics test: To gather more information I watched his other videos and found out that Honor 20 going through the same Unity test at higher FHD resolution performs roughly the same or even slightly faster than P40 despite much less powerful graphics.
My "logical" guess is that the possible reasons why it's underperforming so badly could be the fact that the device is still relatively new and the firmware might have not been fully optimised. Probably EMUI 10.1 sets a stricter limit on GPU power draw when performance mode or AppAssistant is not enabled than EMUI 9 does, too, but I'm not fully sure about this one.
As I already said, there are too many other factors that need to be taken into account to reach a conclusion, but that's just my take on the test results.

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 25 Jun 2020"But other does" That's why I frequently use Anandtech as ... moreLOL !
This is hilarious !
How can you believe that Kirin 990 5G will be more efficient than the 4G version ?
I strongly believe Kirin 990 5G is going to be pretty power hungry.
I think this is why Kirin lost the GPU time.
Kirin 990 5G just throttled that time.

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 25 Jun 2020"I think I have told you before that all Huawei somehow run... moreHow many times do I need to tell you that when a phone cuts corner(no matter which) it has to render less ?
I don't know about mate 20. The android authority review was probably on P30.
Frankly speaking, from my experience, no mate(with same SoC) performed better in neither performance nor efficiency than P series.

Your last statement was kinda stupid. Kirin is using OLD Mali G76. So, you can stop blaming Unity/unreal to be non-optimized for new Mali GPU.

I was also not concluding to anything. I was just trying to be logical.

AnonD-754814, 24 Jun 2020You also can't really compare Samsung phones with others wi... more"But other does"
That's why I frequently use Anandtech as a reference, as they use a private version of apps where benchmark detection won't be activated.

We can wait for them to carry out the review on P40 Pro. I'm expecting Kirin 990 5G to perform roughly the same as the 4G version of the same chip albeit with lower power consumption.

AnonD-754814, 24 Jun 2020I was thinking that too. Because it'd really be illogical t... more"I think I have told you before that all Huawei somehow runs the test at HD+"
In that particular graphics test neither a FPS or screen resolution was shown (and the test was different from what the newer version of Speed Test G uses), so you can't make an assumption that the resolution was lowered on P30 as well just because that was the case on P40. I'm pretty sure I told you this before, those black bars on the top and bottom of the display only cut down the vertical resolution. After all nothing in that video indicated that the horizontal resolution was also reduced.

"Kirin 980 had 55 percent GPU throttling issue while running gfx bench"
Again, I already pointed out last time that this kind of statement makes no sense considering that the effectiveness of the device's cooling system can drastically affect SoC's throttling behaviour. Mate 20 Pro and View 20 are the prime examples.

"The test is on pure Unity and Unreal test"
Non-existent user reports and lack of other benchmarks that use the same game engine makes it impossible to make a statement about whatever the trouble that P40 had with rendering that custom Unity test that Gary created. It might have been caused by reasons that I stated in my previous comment, or maybe, Unity Engine itself hadn't been fully optimised for newer Mali GPU architectures. The fact that his test results are not replicable further clouds the situation (The benchmark app is not public). You just never know, there's simply way too few information available for us to deduce any sort of conclusion.

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 24 Jun 2020Sorry, I was busy with other stuffs and barely had any time... moreYou also can't really compare Samsung phones with others with regular benchmark. Because Samsung doesn't cheat on benchmark. But other does.
For example, other SD 865 smartphones do almost 10 percent better in Antutu, But when it comes to real life speed test(what phonebuff does) or personal simulation(which isn't recognized by the device) Samsung does much better even remaining at cooler temperature.

Actually the problem is both AndroidAuthority and AnandTech didn't do any review of Kirin 990 5G. That's why we don't have much data(proof) of the SoC.

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 24 Jun 2020Sorry, I was busy with other stuffs and barely had any time... moreI was thinking that too. Because it'd really be illogical to say that exynos 9810 is better.

I think I have told you before that all Huawei somehow runs the test at HD+(possibly because of their trickery to get higher score in benchmark) .
This actually used to give advantages to Huawei devices before. So, I'm pretty sure that's not the reason.
Kirin SoCs have always had throttling issues. Kirin 980 had 55 percent GPU throttling issue while running gfx bench. So, using the same GPU but more powerful in 990.
I think throttling is the reason for the performance.

About the optimization. The test is on pure Unity and Unreal test. So, if the GPU isn't optimized for that then this poor performance will definitely remain in the games too.

The CPU did very good. Almost close to SD 865. Somehow the GPU messed up. And my best guess for that is throttling.
It will get clear when we see another speed test G video of Kirin 990 with another device.

AnonD-754814, 22 Jun 2020After reading your comment, for a moment I thought I might ... moreSorry, I was busy with other stuffs and barely had any time to write a long comment yesterday.

So, the video you linked, there are three possible reasons behind its slow performance - Throttling caused by poor cooling, poor app optimisation/glitch, or the issue with how the OS handles specific GPU-related tasks. It appears that the unity gaming test runs at oddly low HD+ resolution (shows lack of optimisation on the app side, assuming that Gary turns off any sorts of game optimisers on all phones) and difference in graphics performance in this test doesn't match up with the results from smoke particle GPU test one before that, which shows 24fps and 14fps for P40 and Note 10 Lite respectively.

But since Gary doesn't clarify the cause of the performance degradation on his unit of P40, it's very hard to draw any conclusion from this video only. Raw performance is clearly better on P40, so is it caused by overheating? Maybe, but I doubt it. Lack of app optimisation? Probably. EMUI is messing something up? There's also a possibility for that. Nothing about it is certain, though.

Most importantly, there isn't any other report that claims Kirin 990 is inferiour to Exynos 9810 in terms of either burst and sustained GPU performance, and I can't find a single group of people on the internet claiming that P40/P40 Pro is ridiculously slow during 3D games as this video implies, either. At this point of time I'm inclined to believe that this is an isolated incident rather than the widespread issues that many P40 users might face. If you think I'm missing anything, feel free to point it out.

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 22 Jun 2020Sorry I might be missing something, could you indicate the ... moreAnything ?

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 22 Jun 2020Sorry I might be missing something, could you indicate the ... moreAfter reading your comment, for a moment I thought I might have made mistake.
But when I re-watched the video I've found that I'm right.

Huawei Kirin 990's GPU is indeed slower than old Exynos 9810 found on Note 10 lite.
There was only one Gary Explain's Speed Test G video about this. May be I didn't make it very clear. Anyway Here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFl5W1MoLA4

I also think this Speed Test to be very accurate because Brands have not optimized their device to perform better than regular unlike regular benchmark app.

AnonD-754814, 22 Jun 2020How on Earth Kirin 990's GPU that slow ? I know kirin GPU ... moreSorry I might be missing something, could you indicate the specific part of the video that shows P40 is somehow slower than Exynos 9810 in graphics? Or am I straight up watching the wrong video?

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 22 Jun 2020Per pixel detail and natural texture rendition are importan... moreYeah, different people like different things.
For example you liked P30 pro's color. But P30 pro used to produce unnatural washed colored photo for both main and Telephoto sensor.
I like the P40 pro's processing a lot though(Just a bit warmer than natural, some scene it helps and ruins some too)
I think modern devices should come with at least 3 different mode(kinda like display setting) to capture photos is Auto mode. So that people have option to choose what they want.

About Kirin 990's GPU. I don't know how that one is a good decision when it loses to a 2 generations old GPU !
About Exynos 990. I think it's all goes to the decision that samsung took last year. Firing all the scientist with custom core decision. They should have kept them couple of months more.
Now Samsung is paying the price. Actually Mongoose core always has been pretty good except this year. People sometimes complain of high power draw but they also should understand that that kind of power comes with energy penalty.
Also the GPU of the Exynos 990 is far less efficient than others which has never happened before. I mean Mali GPU isn't efficient. But Samsung was able implement is with better power and energy efficiency than both Huawei and MediaTek.
Lets see what happens to the Exynos 992 SoC. Will they use new mongoose M6 custom core or cortex A77, Or will they stick to the regular mongoose M6 used in exynos 990 ?

  • AnonD-754814

Nick Tagataka, 22 Jun 2020P40 vs Note 10 Lite? Are you talking about this one? https... moreHow on Earth Kirin 990's GPU that slow ?
I know kirin GPU is little slower. But that test is a shock fro me.
The GPU is even much slower than old Exynos 9810.
Why ? Is there anything that I don't know.