Huawei Mate 40-series might get a 108MP main camera with 9P lens

13 June 2020
A special free-form lens should improve picture quality by a bunch.

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AnonD-754814, 21 Jun 2020Yeah, software has improved a lot but far from good. A 1200... morePer pixel detail and natural texture rendition are important to me, and I really despise overprocessed images (Heck, even those coming out of Pixel 4, Mi 10 Pro and P40 Pro feel too artificial compared to tack sharp photos from Mate 30 Pro). I get that you like sharpened images more though, it's a personal preference after all.
As for colours, again, I prefer natural tones over oversaturated ones. Huawei was going through a right direction with Mate 20 Pro and P30 Pro but then they decided to bump up the saturation (especially green and red) a lot higher for daylight photos with P40 Pro which I'm definitely not a fan of. I also don't like how Samsung, OnePlus and Oppo process colours - it burns my eyes a bit looking at their images. Sony and Xiaomi are the ones I like when it comes to colour science.

"Huawei has messed up with Kirin 990"
Indeed, they should've gone after A77 instead of A76 since the former brings significantly higher efficiency and performance compared to the latter. I'm kinda glad they played safe with GPU and sticking to Mali-G76 though, looking at Exynos 990 it seems that G77 cores aren't exactly more power efficient compared to its predecessor, and additional performance comes with more heat and extra power draw (though to be fair, Samsung clocked them at 800MHz which wasn't really a smart thing to do). You know, Huawei probably didn't want another overheating issue after Kirin 970 GPU fiasco.

    AnonD-754814, 21 Jun 2020Yeah, software has improved a lot but far from good. A 1200... moreP40 vs Note 10 Lite? Are you talking about this one?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBWPz5b6Vnc

    What's wrong with it?

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      • AnonD-754814
      • HxI
      • 21 Jun 2020

      Nick Tagataka, 21 Jun 2020I mean they did manage to mitigate the AF issue on S20 Ultr... moreYeah, software has improved a lot but far from good. A 1200$ phone can't have those issues. They might use ToF to focus currently. I don't know if that's sure. But ToF can't be used as good focus assistance. I hope they will introduce a dedicated Laser AF in Note 20. Also it would be better if they had added contrast AF system.
      About the processing, honestly speaking I actually like Samsung's processing. I know when you zoom in the sharpness doesn't let it look very good. But photos aren't to be used while zooming 100%.
      Usually those type of photo looks better than others while viewing normally. I also like a little eye popping color.
      Overall the S20 is a disgrace for Samsung. Specially the Exynos 990 SoC. They just didn't take right decision to optimize the SoC correctly.

      Speaking about SoC. Remember we talked about Exynos SoC being better than Kirin ?
      Though Samsung has messed up with Exynos 990 but I'm also sure Huawei has messed up with Kirin 990 too.
      Have you watched the Huawei P40 vs Samsung Note 10 lite ( Kirin 990 vs Exynos 9810) ?

        AnonD-754814, 20 Jun 2020Me too, But I just hope Samsung doesn't mess it up next y... moreI mean they did manage to mitigate the AF issue on S20 Ultra through updates (now it's using a ToF sensor to assist focusing I suppose?), but yeah I agree with you on dual apertures and use of glass elements for the lenses. IMO those features are something that not only Galaxy but EVERY flagship phone needs to have in order to come close to compact cameras in terms of flexibility and match them in overall image quality. Probably not for Note 20, but it's definitely possible that they will come to S30 series.

        I personally think Samsung needs to improve the software processing (mainly how details are handled) first, however. It would be nice to see Night Sight/Deep Fusion esque super resolution algorithms on their next flagship.

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          • AnonD-754814
          • r@p
          • 20 Jun 2020

          Nick Tagataka, 20 Jun 2020I really have no idea.Me too,
          But I just hope Samsung doesn't mess it up next year too.
          I mean what was Samsung thinking ? That big sensor with only PDAF and no LAF ?
          Even before the release I though there will be a Laser AF system for S20 ultra.
          First I thought dropping custom core was a bad idea. Now seeing Cortex X1 core I understood it was a good timing.

          They must do 2 things for next flagship. Add any type of Focus assistance and 2 stage aperture(1.6 and 3.2) + glass lens instead of plastic.
          Or they're done for good.

            AnonD-754814, 20 Jun 2020That makes more sense actually. But why would he do that ?I really have no idea.

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              • AnonD-754814
              • r@p
              • 20 Jun 2020

              Nick Tagataka, 20 Jun 2020"About "Danny Winget" comparison video" ..I hate saying th... moreThat makes more sense actually.
              But why would he do that ?

                AnonD-754814, 19 Jun 2020Actually most of our discussion ends without any conclusion... more"About "Danny Winget" comparison video"
                ..I hate saying this now, but it turns out that he was using UWA camera on P40 Pro for all video comparisons that involved the back camera in that particular video for some unknown reason. He wasn't placing the object further for P40 Pro, but since UWA camera captures more in the frame it appeared like it was further away. Pause the video at 6:35 or 6:55 to see what I'm getting at. And he used the Super Steady mode on S20 Ultra for the one with his son running, that's why FoV was similar between those two.
                Honestly I don't know why he did that, since that would've given P40 Pro a disadvantage in per-pixel detail level and force it to rely on weaker & slower regular PDAF instead of Octa (or Dual) PD of the main camera, hence it wouldn't be a true representation of the phone's focusing performance. SuperSaf carried out the test correctly and used the main camera for both phones, which explains why they have very similar FoV for the video test.

                You thought that he was intentionally placing the object closer for S20 Ultra, and I thought that the wider FoV was due to the fact that P40 Pro uses 23mm equiv. lens for the main camera vs 26mm on S20U. After all neither of us were guessing it right.

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                  • AnonD-754814
                  • r@p
                  • 20 Jun 2020

                  Shui8, 20 Jun 2020Looks like your argument with Nick, answered here....which ... moreCurrent argument or the old one ?
                  As I remember you were also with Nick about the "Field of View".
                  Also your article from AnandTech might not help very much.
                  I have never supported S20 ultra to be the best telephoto out there.
                  I was just saying DxoMark giving only 88 for it's zoom is definitely wrong.

                  Anyway, How's everything going in Kuala Lumpur ?

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                    • Shui8
                    • KZK
                    • 20 Jun 2020

                    AnonD-754814, 19 Jun 2020Actually most of our discussion ends without any conclusion... moreLooks like your argument with Nick, answered here....which is the most complete review i could think of as of now.

                    - https://www.anandtech.com/show/15845/mobile-phone-camera-overview-2020-h1/3

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                      • palash
                      • PEq
                      • 19 Jun 2020

                      mate 40. shud hav Fm radio

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                        • AnonD-754814
                        • 6p}
                        • 19 Jun 2020

                        Nick Tagataka, 18 Jun 2020I only leave a discussion either when I consider it to be d... moreActually most of our discussion ends without any conclusion. You kinda trust anything which go against Samsung.
                        For example, do you remember our discussion on field of view about S20 ultra and P40 pro ?

                        About "Danny Winget" comparison video. I said that something he's deliberately doing wrong there. He's putting the object too close while testing AF of S20 ultra. For Huawei the object was much further.
                        But you didn't want to listen to me. You keep saying a lot of unnecessary details which turned out to be messy.
                        Anyway, what I'm saying is, As SuperSaf has done a test between P40pro+ and S20 ultra.
                        You can see that for main camera FOV they have unnoticeable difference.


                          AnonD-754814, 18 Jun 2020Have we really discussed it before ? I mean with conclusion... moreI only leave a discussion either when I consider it to be done or simply miss the notification for some reason and assume that I haven't got any replies. I'm not 100% certain since that happened a while ago, but I'm pretty confident we did finish talking on this topic last time, no? If not then my apology.

                          "pick on Samsung"
                          Are you talking about this whole S20 Ultra DxOMark thingy or something else? Anyway if you're looking for the conclusion for it (or more like my "guess" on why S20U got low score on their website), I've already posted one below.

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                            • AnonD-754814
                            • 6p}
                            • 18 Jun 2020

                            Nick Tagataka, 18 Jun 2020I agree with this comment, but last time we talked about it... moreHave we really discussed it before ? I mean with conclusion.
                            Didn't you just left in the middle of topic ?
                            I also don't have all day for you.

                            But you certainly have all the day to pick on Samsung anyway. Which I can't accept very well.

                              AnonD-754814, 17 Jun 2020Don't make it difficult. Is the periscope shots of P30pro... moreI agree with this comment, but last time we talked about it I was also saying that their score might be taking into account the seriousness of artifacts introduced during the image fusion, remember? All I can tell is that S20 Ultra's image fusion kicks in at much shorter zoom factor than P30 Pro as you already know, and the fusion artifacts generally look a bit more intrusive on S20U's camera (from a limited number of samples that I've seen). I think those factors, especially the latter, took a toll on S20U's zoom subscore to the level that the improvement in the image quality from 4x telephoto lens with a large sensor got completely overwhelmed. But again that's just my guess, and we can't make any solid conclusion for this discussion because we don't know how their scoring method exactly works.

                              "Giving S20ultra 88 and P30pro around 110"
                              P30 Pro didn't get 110 for zoom.

                              And please refrain from bringing up the topic we've ALREADY DISCUSSED BEFORE next time. It's a complete waste of time.

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                                • AnonD-754814
                                • 6p}
                                • 17 Jun 2020

                                Nick Tagataka, 17 Jun 2020"Every reviews posted from first week of April to 3rd week ... moreDon't make it difficult.
                                Is the periscope shots of P30pro from 3.1x to 4.9x worse than the other flagship like Mate 30 pro or Mi 10 pro ?
                                AnandTech says yes to this answer.
                                So, S20 ultra is bad at 1.1x to 3.9x.
                                and P30 pro is bad at 3.1x to 4.9x.
                                And S20 ultra periscope is better in other scenarios.

                                So, Giving S20ultra 88 and P30pro around 110 is definitely a biased review from DxOMARK.

                                  AnonD-754814, 16 Jun 2020Well, I've read that review from AnandTech. Looks like what... more"Every reviews posted from first week of April to 3rd week shows Exynos to be superior.
                                  Because Exynos got the 3rd(1st major) update since it's release in February. SD got the update later in April(probably around mid April)"
                                  That's a very interesting insight, thanks for letting me know. While it's hard to draw a conclusion from the Tech Chap's comparison since he doesn't zoom into those indoor low light shots, if Anandtech's review is based on outdated software then I shouldn't be claiming that the SD variant is inferiour to the Exynos in all scenario.

                                  "Isn't the same thing I was saying ? I was saying both the S20 Ultra and P30 pro do some trickery to achieve zoom"
                                  "You're saying your P30 pro doesn't do it at all"
                                  Nope, you're misremembering what I said at that time. P30 Pro uses super-res zoom up to 2.9x to increase the resolution (which helps it produce comparable results to a dedicated 2x zoom lens in a close range zoom), then the depth-of-field fusion kicks in from 3-4.9x, whereas S20 Ultra tries to combine information from both cameras between 2-3.9x. You were thinking that their behaviours are IDENTICAL, that's why I pointed you out.

                                    Anonymous, 16 Jun 2020 "Finally, what the heck am I supposed to do about this 25... moreNah, it's just that you didn't specify which part of the video you want me nor the point you want to make. I don't want to waste my time on a stranger on the internet who just throws me 25 mins video without a single description for it and somehow expects me to get his message. When I post a link I usually tell people which part of the review supports my argument especially when it takes long time to read/watch the entire thing. That's a basic manner when having a discussion with others.

                                    Yesterday I assumed that you were talking about the zoom quality so jumped onto the zoom section of the video, and *already told you that what he says is roughly in line with our ideas*. If you have anything else to tell me then be freaking clear about it instead of this whole "Uhhh u don wanna watch it coz u cant face the reality" crap that you're dumping onto me.
                                    In case you were referring to your first comment ("Only advantage p40 pro+ has was at 30x zoom"), YOU tell me which parts of the video made you reach such conclusion. It's not my job to figure that out for you.

                                    "when confronted with side by side comparison which will clearly expose the points that me and the other guy was making"
                                    I was literally AGREEING with what "the other guy" was saying (albeit slightly different opinion on the colour issue).. can you actually read?

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                                      • Anonymous
                                      • XRg
                                      • 16 Jun 2020

                                      Nick Tagataka, 16 Jun 2020If you really understood what you were saying then you woul... more
                                      "Finally, what the heck am I supposed to do about this 25 minutes camera comparison video? Should I watch everything and speak my overall impression to you wasting another 45 minutes of my time in the process, because I don't really feel like doing it right now"

                                      >>You don't want to watch it Coz you know you'd be proven wrong and everything I said in my post and what the other guy was saying about YouTube comparisons would be proven true.
                                      Watch the whole video on a big screen Color calibrated TV or monitor, not on a tiny smartphone and then come back and talk to me.

                                      I have observed that your are unbiased when judging smartphones especially compared to some other brand boiis over here.
                                      But in context of Huawei, I see you in every article making excuses for the shortcomings of Huawei. Just like you are making excuses here when confronted with side by side comparison which will clearly expose the points that me and the other guy was making.

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                                        • AnonD-754814
                                        • HxI
                                        • 16 Jun 2020

                                        Nick Tagataka, 16 Jun 2020And you've got a tendency to disagree with my opinion witho... moreWell, I've read that review from AnandTech. Looks like what I said was mostly right.
                                        Every reviews posted from first week of April to 3rd week shows Exynos to be superior.
                                        Because Exynos got the 3rd(1st major) update since it's release in February. SD got the update later in April(probably around mid April).

                                        And Thanks to you, Now I know where you got you theory of S20 ultra being crap at 1.1x to 3.9x zoom.
                                        You also refer AnandTech most times. Looks like you believe it completely.

                                        If you believe it so much Mi-Lord why didn't you read the P30 pro review from it ?
                                        Or you'll just take only the part which goes in favor of you and ignore the part where it goes against you.
                                        AnandTech clearly says P30 pro loses detail from 3.1x to 4.9x .
                                        Isn't the same thing I was saying ? I was saying both the S20 Ultra and P30 pro do some trickery to achieve zoom. You're saying your P30 pro doesn't do it at all.

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