OnePlus Nord to pack dual front-facing cameras

26 June 2020
That takes the total number of rumored cameras on the mid-ranger to six.

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  • Nihaf

Resemble realme x50 pro

  • Rango

Go for 7T instead 🤘No need to thank

  • Joe

Sushant Sic, 27 Jun 2020Its probably going to be the Oppo Reno3 Pro's copy for sure... moreI think it will be based on Reno 4 regular, since it has dual punch hole with snapdragon 765g also

I don't know why comapanies are insisting to put dual punch on their screen . which looks pretty awful and kills the entire display usage experience.
If it is gonna come with dual punch hole i am pretty sure i am not gonna buy this.

The SD 765G and the 90Hz display will raise the price so much over 400$ I am sure of it. RAM doesn't matter because it will be last-gen and it's dirt cheap now.
Not even PIxel 4a looks any better. Old hardware, a late launch and the price near 400$ is not that good either.
SE 2020 really killed the mid-range devices with that A13 Bionic and 400$ price tag. Not to mention the update-support for 5 years.
The only solution is that Pixel 4a and OnePlus to announce at least 3 years' support at launch to justify the price.

  • Exul

I really hope that it will be a dual camera as it basically means that the punch hole will be at the top left instead of the middle which I dislike. Might even be a deal breaker

  • Anonymous

they gonna use it to justify the price. if it's sd765g, more than 4gb ram, decent battery, 90hz full hd display for £/$350 then it's good. any higher not good

  • AngryLithuanian

"According to the publication, the OnePlus Nord will have a Huawei P40 series-like cut-out in the top-left corner of the screen for the 32MP selfie camera which will be joined by an 8MP ultrawide angle unit."

Do people really want two selfie cameras?

It occupies more screen and looks questionable design-wise. P40 Pro feels nice and premium but that pill-shaped cut out looks like an afterthought than anything else and I'm being nice here. Just give us that 8MP ultrawide and call it a day. Makes the phone slightly cheaper too!

  • Anonymous

I wish the dual cameras were in the middle, instead of the side.

  • Anonymous

Not sure what is will all the 5-6 cameras on today's phones, 1-2 on the back and one in the front is more than ok.

And two in the front to have a huge cutout is very bad. I was looking forward for this phone, but with two cameras on the screen I will look somewhere else, I use the front camera once every few months.

din djarin, 27 Jun 2020i personally thinks phones with the dual punch hole design ... moreTrue. One more prospective buy turns to a disappointment.

"...32MP selfie camera which will be joined by an 8MP ultrawide angle unit."

Shut up and take my money, if that's real! A dual selfie camera with two different focal lengths is definitely a must-have. Right now, only Huawei has a bunch of smartphones with such front camera configuration.

  • Anonymous

that's ugly

  • din djarin

i personally thinks phones with the dual punch hole design on the front looks very ugly !! a big thumbs down 👎

Its probably going to be the Oppo Reno3 Pro's copy for sure with different internals...

Blackk Mamba , 27 Jun 2020Can the slider mechanism of Galaxy A80 be made waterproof? ... moreThat's the complicated part of the sliders, they can either be the worse at water resistant as they can also be made totally waterproof (no physical opening).

If you take slider like the Xiaomi Mi Mix 3, it is the worst at water resistance, even rain and be dangerous for that type of moving camera system...

Then if you take something like the Oppo Find X, there are still lot of water resistance concern (I wouldn't use it under the rain and really hope it doesn't fall in water) as the slider system is basically a part of the phone body moving away.

Now if you ask me if the mechanism concept itself can be made waterproof, yes it can, you don't need the sliding part to be actually a part of the main phone body but rather an external "shell" sliding using actuating system that themselves are non water sensitive and having the rotating camera module enclosed off of the rest.

As for the A80 itself, I didn't knew it enough so I watched a teardown video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6UtVSN3fno
So I was that basically it is like the Find X as it is a part of the body lifting up rather than a separated part from the body moving against it, so clearly this design can't be made waterproof at all, but a slider design with a rotating camera system can still be made water resistant or even waterproof.

Now I have imagined a concept of basically the opposite where a part of the display slide down (still under the protective and capacitive glass, it would hide behind the rest of the display) to reveal basically the main sensor(s) on a periscope that use the regular 45° prism but with a system to allow the camera to switch from read to front view, it can be archived in many ways, from having the prism rotating, using OiS to move the perceived image from one prism to another, to use a double 45° prism and using polarisation to choose either one or the other or to use other means like flexible mirrors and other moving lenses/mirror systems.
I think of this as the ultimate evolution of the flip/rotating camera.

I also imagined a concept where the pop up basically wouldn't have any camera inside but only lenses, and when lifting, a shift of the lenses/mirrors/prisms would cause the main camera to look forward, which would effectively make the phone having also a motorized system that would use the main back camera(s) as front camera when needed.

Then, it might not be what you look for, but my idea of a phone with no front camera at all but rather with a retinal projector on the back allowing to see a virtual display floating in the air (even in 3D) when turning the phone around and looking at the back, it would allow for use of camera (here the main one) without the requirement of a second display nor front camera.

bjorg18, 26 Jun 2020Does that mean this will be altogether a new design? My ... moreI think you'll find compact phones on the cheap entry level range and flagships. This Nord is a mid-range phone so don't expect anything less than a big screen.

  • Blackk Mamba

Demongornot, 26 Jun 2020Punch holes are already bad enough, but dual punch holes ar... moreCan the slider mechanism of Galaxy A80 be made waterproof?
I'd prefer that over pop up camera as the back camera turns into front camera.

ishreal, 26 Jun 2020A bezel is mostly all wasted space. When companies make a p... moreLong answer, part 2 (yes I did got over the character limit, again...)

If you want a fulldisplay, go with pop up camera, I'll soon buy the Poco F2 Pro and my GF want to buy the Mi 9T, pop up are far better and way more resistant than what peoples say about them, they do offer real fulldisplay without ANY dead space for the user AND they are the only tech combining front facing camera and privacy (which have became one of the most important thing we should look after nowaday).
If bad myth about the pop up didn't killed its popularity, we would have today more variety of them, including large one hosting ton of interesting sensors like the Oppo Find X did (though it isn't a pop up but a pop up/slider hybrid).
By the way, it is also because of this stupid idea of reducing the number of useful sensors that spread because of the shrinking of the notch that pop up are stuck with mostly a single camera while the norm should be like the Vivo V17 Pro but with the same sensors as the iPhone's notch.
There is a good reasons why modern TV that have a camera choose a pop up mechanism, both because it would be unacceptable to have any hole or notch on a TV, and also because no one right it its mind would accept a camera connected to internet constantly staring at his living room...

Also, it isn't as if bezel are huge, nowaday with the Xiaomi Black Shark 3 Pro and the Nubia Play we can't say anymore that bezel are always huge, and this "wasted" space is an illusion, technically you could say that the whole reality around your phone is a waste of space because what you see on the display doesn't cover it, nothing require a phone to have a display going from side to side, it just look better but doesn't have any REAL practical advantages.
Ironically, the hole bottom is placed further down that what a decently thin bezel would go, effectively making the punch hole a higher dead area than a bezel.

And the fulldisplay obsession with punch hole have gone stupid, most phone with a punch hole have a chin as large as what a thin top bezel could be, what the point of trying to maximise the useful display area if it is to put a inconvenient hole on the display just to not have what the phone already have at the end ?
Just put the damn display upside down and put sensors on that dead space already...

Finally, it isn't as if we lacked vertical space, in portrait mode, the display is far larger than the 16/9 format which is basically everywhere, on a 16/9 format phone (not display, phone), indeed a bezel would be a problematic thing, but even on a 16/9 format display, you can add as much bezel and chin as you want, it won't change anything to your experience, except when your phone will reach 4 foot long and will become hard to handle xD

There is the meme saying "anime was a mistake", it is a fun one based on a sentence out of its context, on the other hand, punch hole and notches (as they are nowaday) do are mistakes.
Give my a phone with a notch that host as many sensors as the iPhone X or 11, show notifications and statut icons on multiple lines around it and can allow for AT LEAST as many icons slots as a regular clean display, while not allowing fulldisplay apps to access it but rather have an option as to if status/notifications icons are shown or not during fulldisplay apps...
And I will tell you that this is a great concept and the only thing missing is privacy, and I would prefer it over bezel and it would be my favorite option after pop ups.
And it will indeed by a "dynamic bezel", but the current implementation is the worse possible one, everything was done backward.

So here is the story about the punch hole.

ishreal, 26 Jun 2020A bezel is mostly all wasted space. When companies make a p... moreCouldn't be further from the reality...
TL DR :
Teardrop (and other small) notches and punch holes cause to have less available notifications space, waste display space, cause issue with content, cause your phone to have less features, cost more, can take more space than bezels, already have the same "wasted" space on the chin that could just be put on top, and are an accident.

Long answer, part 1 :

First, why does the punch hole even exist ?
Well, you can trace that back to the iPhone X, YES I know that earlier phones had some sort of notches or holes, but the iPhone X concept is RADICALLY DIFFERENT, and this is what almost everybody failed to understand.

First, there is a fondamental difference between iOS and Android in term of notifications, the top bar on iOS only contain statut icons and no notifications, while on Android the top bar have both notifications on the left and statut on the right.
Both have the same characteristic to be on top of the display and always visible except on fulldisplay apps.

On the iPhone 8 and prior, there was large bezel, the Touch ID sensor required a large chin as the capacitive sensor was outside of the display, Apple wasn't into the indisplay fingerprint scanner.
The iPhone while they always had their large bezel appearance started to look outdated compared to the competition on the same period, the Samsung Galaxy S8 for exemple with relatively modest bezels was giving a closer experience to fulldisplay than most other phone before, and being a huge competitor, Apple probably had to tackle this.
But since they didn't wanted to put underdisplay fingerprint scanners, they weren't into back fingerprint scanner either, and they probably wanted at all cost to maintain biometric sensor on the phone, they switched to Face ID which can be used on the same space than the existing front camera.
Then they worked on density and made basically a top bezel but less large, and they put display on its sides where the statut bar can be moved to.
So the Apple notch in a practical and design point of view is NOT a dent on the display, it is a reduced notch with display on its sides.
Their error was to keep the regular one line statut bar rather than putting a two lines one, and to allow apps to access this space who should have strictly be kept there for notifications.
But for the iPhone notch, the idea is really to move the statut bar outside of the rest of the display, even if having a single line mean that less informations can be displayed than before.

Then after its success, Android phone makers copied it, but rather than copying the idea, they copied the appearance.
What should have happened (and probably happened on a proper version of the reality xD) on Android was the idea of the notch which is to put as many sensors as possible, including biometric, like Samsung did with the Samsung S8 (and S9) with Iris Scanner and keep it as narrow as possible and use as multiple lines to display as many icons as possible on the sides, maybe even over the sensors themselves using transparent monochrome display or anything else...
They stupidly copied how it look, which effectively and functionally was really a dent on the display for the phones who had that, like the Nokia 5.1 Plus who had a large notch but only feature a single front camera and a speaker, the ultimate space waste...
Other did try the Apple approach, like the Xiaomi Mi 8 who had an IR facial recognition camera (though the dot projector is missing), the Xiaomi Redmi Note 6 Pro is in between with no biometric but at least 2 camera and a notification led.
Note that I am only talking about phones of big brands (so no Umidigi or Ulefone) and that were released less than a year after the iPhone X, so who got directly inspired.

But then, we quickly realized that the notch by itself isn't that great on Android, first because rather than really using it to move the statut and notifications out of the main display, the opposite have been done : Allowing apps to access this area, but also, because while on iOS the top bar is only there for STATUT icons (and the notch already cause to have less available), on Android we have both NOTIFICATIONS AND STATUT icons, and a notch as large as the one on the iPhone X wasn't viable.
Literally you can only show 2 notification icons next to the time and only 3 or 4 statut icons, this is really stupid for a phone running a system heavily dependent on notifications for the user experience...
So obviously the next step was to reduce the size of the notch, so it shrunk, as seen in the Huawei Nova 3, who still had an additional sensor beside the regular camera, here in form of a depth sensor...

But then, it was still too large, and it kept shrinking to reach the teardrop shape, which is the closest to the pre iPhone X notch attempt from the Essential Phone PH1, in this phone they already understood that the notch should have been made the narrowest as possible on Android, and they did it without sacrificing the REAL proximity and ambiant light sensors unlike more modern implementation which basically made either tiny or underdisplay variant of those, costing more and underperforming compared to the more regular one seen in the good old bezel.
Note that the PH1 was made with Android in mind and wasn't influenced by any other manufacturers, and Apple didn't copied it as the concept is literally the opposite...
No wonder the PH1 didn't got copied, it was a unique concept as some other phone were, but not something you would want...

And finally, the punch hole, the notch being reduced to its smallest possible to allow for a camera AND still being nice looking (the PH1 really show the true ugliness of the small notch), the only thing left to do now that there is a dent on the display only to put a hole where a camera look through, is to remove the dent and leave the hole, hence the punch hole.
It only was born because how the notch was realized to be a mistake and rather than giving up on it they tried to shrink ir again and again until it reached the smallest possible form.
But despite being better for display usable space than the notch, it carried the same issues as the teardrop which is to only have a single camera and no other useful sensors, THIS is a waste of space, damaging the display integrity for a single sensor that isn't essential at all, that's how the punch hole bad influence started, we can see how bad it became with a phone like the Meizu 6 that despite having a bezel, have a tiny camera, an ultra thin speaker and ambiant light and proximity sensors were moved underdisplay, this is in direct contrast with what was done before the notch hell, the Samsung S8 and S9 who had a modest bezel with lot of sensors including Iris scanner which could have become an hybrid Iris and 3D facial recognition sensors as both use IR camera and IR floodlight.
Ironically the next Meizu, the 7 show the only proper use for a punch hole, combining it with the battery icon, meaning no space wasted.

Because the issue of teardrop notch AND punch hole is that both reduce the available space for the combined notifications and statut icons, making the punch hole a nuisance for those while on top of that also disturbing user display experience.
I took two screenshots of my OnePlus 6t with the notch and with the "disabled notch" feature of Android 10 (plus a third one), look at how many notification icons are missing in the notched version :
https://imgur.com/a/fu4qLmE

So in reality, the truth is, the bezel is WAY more than a permanent camera that do nothing, it is where tons of sensors are hosted, a single bezel can host :
Two front camera (portrait and wide angle for example), real ambiant light and proximity sensors, large speaker, microphones, dot projector, IR floodlight, one or two IR camera reading those two IR sources and allowing 3D facial recognition + Iris scanner and/or palm reading as LG implemented, potentially UV floodlight and camera for added facial recognition security.
The Galaxy S8/9 and Pixel 4 have most of those without even trying to get as densely packed as the iPhone X.
But what the punch hole is though, is a permanent bunch of dead/nonexistent pixels on the display that do nothing else than having a camera constantly staring at you and not allowing any other sensors, even for security, to be present, and when they do, like on the Huawei P40 Pro, it look extremely ugly, still don't allow for many sensors to be implemented and waste ton of space on the notification and statut bar.
Also, making the display going all the way from the top to bottom is expensive.

A lot of apps had issues with the notch and punch hole placement, and it ISN'T to app makers to fix that, imagine if tomorrow computer monitors started to have a notch or a punch hole, just to make a camera staring at you, and if peoples started to complain to game devs that, the compass, on many games that have always been on the top of the display, shouldn't be placed there because a stupid trend that the majority of people hate make the display goes away from its intended use of showing an image of a specific format, which created a dead area making some elements non visible for the user...