Weekly poll: under-screen cameras are nearly here, but are they better than flip-up cams?
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- Anonymous
- MSJ
- 26 Aug 2020
wbpwns, 26 Aug 2020I think Xiaomi knew alpha was both too pricey and also frag... moreNobody expected Alpha to be a seller. More like a prototype. Still, IF this was cheap for masses I'd not complain phones look this way.
Sadly Idk, I had no chance to test it just a little glance :(
- w
- wbpwns
- uSW
- 26 Aug 2020
Anonymous, 25 Aug 2020I'd pick Mi mix Alpha :)
-in theory.
None of them
-... moreI think Xiaomi knew alpha was both too pricey and also fragile in its design so it won't sell well.
If i had to choose to have that side screen, I'd probably buy huawei foldable.
Nubia z20 is almost perfect for me. The software is only downside. I'm curious how using 3rd party apps function in that phone and vivo nex 2? Like open camera?
- d
- dbjungle
- 47L
- 26 Aug 2020
Anonymous, 24 Aug 2020Under display fingerprint readers are not half-baked, they&... moreThey are considerably slower and less reliable than the sensors that are not under the display. That's why I call it half baked.
- ?
- Anonymous
- MFI
- 25 Aug 2020
wbpwns, 25 Aug 2020So you meant something like meizu pro 7 plus? A dedicated s... moreI'd pick Mi mix Alpha :)
-in theory.
None of them
-in reality.
Only where I kind of didn't agree and replied to you was this: "As for no movable parts alternative to flip cams, dual screen is the answer."
It might be. Only if costs and technology improves (durability) so it could be brought to masses. Today, small secondary (like Meizu) would be enough for selfies to me. Big screen (like Nubia) would be also for videocalls. I don't see any other urge to use and PAY for that screen though. Naturally, such phones are more like high end price range so the main direction for masses (=cheaper phones) is rather flipcams and underscreen than secondary display. Unless they become cheaper and more durable. Then 2 screens of which 1 has camera could be fine (Alpha, yes).
Otherwise agreed, flipcam seems to be safer bet if it stops to work. It looks like this isn't the most people prefer nowadays though, how many such phones are there, not much. I think underscreen will prevail in the end, even if anybody doesn't like it. BUT that privacy, OEMs really should take this serious so people can have cool phones not another potential spying device.
Btw Nubia is nice.
- D
- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 25 Aug 2020
ThePhoneGuy, 25 Aug 2020He most likely said about the camera as a moving part, you ... moreI know, I am just tired of peoples constantly talking about "moving parts" as if it was a negative things, there is literally nothing wrong with moving parts, the pop up proved to be one of the most reliable part of the phone.
Hell moving parts did prove to be more reliable than non moving parts, there are almost no report of broken pop up to be found, while for the same phones, there are tons of reports of display, battery, electronic/chips failure, and unlike the pop up who only disable the front camera if broken, those other components are keys and the smartphone is virtually inoperable once they break.
They all talk about "moving parts", "wear", "fragility", "water", "IP rating", "point of failure" and "reliability" because they read it somewhere else and aren't checking FACTS nor thinking for themselves, which is exactly why moving camera aren't more popular, they scare peoples away.
The fact is, there are more individual who bring those old debunked facts than the total number of broken pop up/flip up/slider.
- ATSnothingELSE
- JG0
- 25 Aug 2020
I sure hope they will place the under display camera to the center of the screen...
- w
- wbpwns
- uSW
- 25 Aug 2020
Anonymous, 24 Aug 2020No you have not. Power consumption of secondary screen as t... moreSo you meant something like meizu pro 7 plus? A dedicated small rear screen just for selfies and video calls, nothing more.
I would prefer nubia x/z20 with a fully functional rear screen. Problem with z20 was software. Despite using same camera hardware, in selfie mode, maximum video settings were worse than in rear cam mode. They didn't give any explanation why it is like that. And of course they don't give software updates. So any big company with better software handling the concept of z20 is a check for me. Vivo nex 2 is same concept but circle cuts into rear display. It's ugly imho.
On moving parts, if flip cams fail in the long run, i can manually flip it to use. If pop-up (vivo nex or find x style) fails, I'd have to learn how to pry open my phone like jerry rig and I definitely won't do that.
Ud cameras definitely need a led indicator somewhere on the phone to indicate if it's being used.
- m
- mehami
- B}u
- 25 Aug 2020
Only the camera under the screen! Even if we do not have a selfie.
The camera under the screen is great.
- T
- ThePhoneGuy
- nDx
- 25 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 25 Aug 2020"No moving parts for me" So you don't wan... moreHe most likely said about the camera as a moving part, you can only see the the camera flipping
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 25 Aug 2020
Spanky, 25 Aug 2020I’m ALL for under-display cameras. Sleek, elegant, unobtrus... more"No moving parts for me"
So you don't want :
*A battery (batteries expand and contract as they are charged/discharged).
*OIS (which physically move the lenses).
*Any optical zoom or focus capabilities (same, also move the lenses).
*Periscope telephoto (move even more).
*Vibration motor (well, no need to be a genius to understand that one move).
*Speakers (they work by vibrating a membrane).
*Physical buttons (as they...Physically move...).
That would be quite a limited phone...
- D
- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 25 Aug 2020
Simon, 25 Aug 2020Firstly, I prefer no selfie camera. I literally never use i... moreBetter just not put any, so you get privacy advantage increased (also underdisplay camera cost a lot).
Many peoples like you and me would prefer a phone without selfie camera, but sadly there is always someone to complain about selfies or video calls, like if making ONE phone without it mean no one would be able to use their selfie camera anymore...
Better than any underdisplay camera, just have a case with this :
https://walyou.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/12/OneMoreFace-1.jpg
But in a simple foldable mechanism, so if you need the use both camera + display, you can still do it, it is extra cheap (literally few hinges, a tiny structure and two mirrors, would cost pennies), easily replaceable as it is on the case, and if you don't want selfie camera, you aren't having the cons of phone with X or Y solution to include one.
- S
- Simon
- 7AH
- 25 Aug 2020
Firstly, I prefer no selfie camera. I literally never use it, and if I were to take a picture of myself, I'd just use the superior camera on the back. If they absolutely have to put a selfie camera, just put a shitty one under the screen, as long as it doesn't affect the quality of the screen.
- S
- Spanky
- nD@
- 25 Aug 2020
I’m ALL for under-display cameras. Sleek, elegant, unobtrusive and modern (not to mention cheaper to manufacture). No moving parts for me, thank you very much.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 24 Aug 2020
Anonymous, 24 Aug 2020Giving too much diverse among manufacture can create some n... moreNot really, even with diversity, most will still be "smartphones".
Except really niche ones, the only real separation between those devices would be the price range, most peoples buy without really knowing what they buy anyway.
Specialized camera setup (like emphasis on zoom with telephoto periscope or on night quality, or even a balanced setup with multiple different sensors) won't really compete among each other, most non techies who buy popular phones, like the Galaxy flagships or the iPhones don't really compare the camera setup, nor they even really know what each camera is for anyway.
That way we could maybe finally have a phone with all 6 main sensor type :
General purpose, wide/ultrawide, telephoto (periscope style), portrait (with zoom), macro (with zoom), and ToF with enough resolution to be relevant (12Mp).
Maybe a seventh in the form of monochrome or any other sensor that can be used either for special pictures or for helping the software processing the pictures.
Most will just buy what they see ads for, regardless if it have moving camera, bezel, punch hole or notch, or any other specialty, except really niches one of course.
And well, the flip mechanism itself isn't to blame for the lack of OIS, nor for software implementation, the phone itself can be blamed for its implementation, but not the tech who only host the camera (and could host a sensor with OIS).
Anyway what I consider the best setup for a phone with flip up would be to have some sensors on the flip up, and others on the back outside the flip up.
Main camera and wide/ultrawide can be quite useful on the flip up, along with ToF that can be used for 3D facial recognition, but telephoto, macro and portrait aren't needed in front of the phone.
Ideally for 3D Facial recognition, you can also add an ultraviolet camera + LED setup in the flip up/pop up to gather additional unique face details.
- ?
- Anonymous
- m%V
- 24 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 24 Aug 2020Exactly !
That's why I am advocating against underdis... moreGiving too much diverse among manufacture can create some nice niche product. But it also avoid direct competition which results in many compromise among the various options and miss any potential real fight which may lead in the ever increase in price.
As for the flip camera con: I can't believe nobody mention the lack of OIS and questionable EIS (at least on Zenfone6)? I mean, it 2020, a phone with potential near top spec but compromise in OIS/EIS? Too much diverse indeed...
- ?
- Anonymous
- xq5
- 24 Aug 2020
Bring me a phone without any camera. Just superb performance is all I need.
- Fulljack
- wra
- 24 Aug 2020
I've been using pop-up front camera with my 9t pro and I find it as a good enough solution. unless you abuse it like jerry rig everything videos, you'll be fine. but I couldn't say the same to under display camera. so paint me skeptical but unless the technology has been proven then I won't touch it. just like how under display fingerprint scanner isn't as reliable as capacitive one.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 24 Aug 2020
Anonymous, 24 Aug 2020Under display fingerprint readers are not half-baked, they&... moreActually, the one Samsung use on the S10, S20, Note10 and Note20 are all the same, the Qualcomm 3D Sonic, and despite being not that good on release, it now have been patched and work really well, also many peoples use it incorrectly, you are not to press down and hold your finger but to tap the display with ultrasonic fingerprint scanner.
In truth, this scanner is actually better than both capacitive and optical fingerprint scanner, but unlike capacitive who give you a map of where your fingerprint ridges touch the sensor and optical who give you an image, you need a serious and complex sound imaging software to output a fingerprint data, but it is because there are way more informations, that's why it wasn't that good at first, because it is hard to make the software for it.
And the newer model, the 3D Sonic Max, is even better, more powerful, reliable and secure from its hardware, and with good software it can be made even better and get capabilities totally impossible for other FPS, such as checking it is scanning matter with the same density that human flesh have, work with gloves, use your veins to identify you, veins in your finger are as specific (or even more) than fingerprints, combining the two exponentially boost protection and not everyone can collect such data, etc etc...
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 24 Aug 2020
Anonymous, 24 Aug 2020Yes, powering camera through the same wire as notification ... moreExactly !
That's why I am advocating against underdisplay camera and explain why pop up/flip up/slider are better, because I perfectly know that I can't change much and underdisplay camera are coming regardless, but all hiding moving camera are going to suffer from the market invasion underdisplay camera will cause, greatly reducing their availability.
I am not against underdisplay camera at the point I want none to exist, I am for everyone having what they want, I am for good market balance of different solutions, that's why I explains the cons of the popular system and the pros of the rare one.
Many peoples still don't get that there is not a single solution that should be on every smartphones, but rather that a mix of various specs making each phone almost unique is what we should have.
Like, a bezel phone with a single back camera (but still flagship specs), a punch hole phone with a special fingerprint scanner, a phone with underdisplay and excellent sound system, a phone with pop up with 3D facial recognition, a phone with no front camera but with extreme main cameras setup, etc.
In the current market, most phones are basically the same, except the number of megapixels of the camera and some different camera setup, nothing really change, you can't find a phone that match what you want except if what you want is exactly then single formula the market constantly focus on...
Diversity is better than ANY particular setup, even my personal fictional concept phone that I really love, I clearly don't think it is any better to have it in the market (despite being made to be "ideal") than a true diversity market with many combinaisons to choose from.
- TEtech
- Tq0
- 24 Aug 2020
Filipe, 23 Aug 2020Smartphones are getting ugglier.... Camera bumps, designs a... moreI disagree, the point of different lenses is the versatility you get from it, just watch phone reviews from the time the multiple lenses started and see how they pries the fact they can shoot ultra wide shot of entire buildings, or of the p30 pro which introduced to the world the periscope camera that can shoot more detail than your eye in long distance.
and the pros just come in.