Weekly poll results: under-display cameras are exciting, never mind potential downsides
- Al-Aqsa Lover
- fv%
- 05 Sep 2020
Aan2007, 30 Aug 2020yeah, because with notch or punch hole, not indicating acti... moreNo I just wished the pop up become the new mainstream
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 01 Sep 2020
Furiounx, 01 Sep 2020Well if you're so concerned about phone audio quality ... moreYes, there is a huge difference :
Headphone Jack :
Have MANY already existing and ALREADY OWNED hardware compatible with it, from pro grade headphones to gaming headset and decades worth of various audio equipment.
Yes the cable may be inconvenient, but I'd take a wired headphone anyday than one I need to recharge and that cost way more to have lesser quality, drain phone battery and isn't using a secure wireless tech that was NEVER designed for sound.
Alternatives mean either having those or having an adapter, which not only isn't practical as you loose the capability to change AND listen to wired music, which, during long commute is a common practice, and aren't even compatible universally despite being all Jack to USB-C but rely on each brand DAC implementation.
By the way, this isn't as if there was that much Bluetooth HEADSET to choose from, because I hate having something in my hears, this is gross, not practical and can't offer the sound quality of a bigger driver like a 40mm or 50mm a nice headset have.
You won't find any relevant battery or features difference between a phone with and without the Jack, proving its removal have NO PURPOSES, if at least it added any benefit, maybe, but here, except for the brand to sell you expensive things that will become mandatory and justify yet another price increase, regardless if you already bought your own earbuds that are better and don't want the provided one, it have not a single benefit, which is why it is highly egoistic and egocentric when someone promote its removal, literally it doesn't do ANYTHING negative to the person wherever the Jack is here or not, it only affect negatively affect other who want or even NEED it.
Front camera :
Except with pop up and second display on the back (which in essence is having no front camera) will ALWAYS pause privacy issues, which, and I can't stretch this enough, is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, way more than any "user confort" feature.
Is often intrusive with either bezels, stupid removal of a part of the screen that should display active and important informations, pop up which with currently implementation take a bit of space, or expensive constantly spying camera that give an illusion of privacy (which is worse than having none), so regardless of the implementation, it will ALWAYS cause issues.
But the solutions are quite easy, either the retractable mirror I often talked about recently, which allow to use the main camera as selfie camera WITHOUT ANY DRAWBACKS and can be either integrated in the case or in the back of the phone, a second display, an external camera, or an external monitor.
This isn't as if you were doing 20 video call per days, just opening and closing a couple of time this won't kill you, literally if this is an excuse against the removal of the front camera, well, sorry but this is anything but a justified one, and many peoples did and still do take selfies using mirrors anyway, it isn't as if the concept was alien.
*So, from one side you have something that have valid reasons to not be removed, being many already existing and already owned, unique and higher quality audio equipment that can be also used on other devices (PC, consoles, tablets, etc) and with unpractical, COSTLY or inconvenient AND not even properly compatible adapter.
*On the other you have something that, regardless which way you look at it, always cause issues, not just one, but several, and which have quite cheap/free and non intrusive and even better quality and that are quite easy and quick to use without being too involving/annoying.
So, why would, if we had to choose between the two, you justify that we should remove the Jack ?
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- Furiounx
- sFv
- 01 Sep 2020
AnonD-909757, 31 Aug 20203.5mm have alternatives ? What about my Corsair Void Pro, ... moreWell if you're so concerned about phone audio quality then get an LG then? I'm not for removal of headphone jacks but for the vast majority it's not a huge deal. And using a Bluetooth camera? What? A selfie camera is WAY more convenient. And yeah that is equivalent to a headphone jack too which proves your point. But my point is that there's a huge difference between removal of a headphone jack vs front camera.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 31 Aug 2020
dbjungle, 31 Aug 2020I'm a consumer and I want a hole punch. I don't ... moreI forgot to answer about the "accessories", which by the way is EXACTLY what those enforcing Jack removal are trying to push with the stupid adapter that isn't even compatible with all devices but is brand dependent.
But yeah, there can also be phones where it is in the back of the phone too, not just in the case.
There can also be slider designs where the slider part is outside of the phone (so no water or dust issue) and is basically doing the same thing, when you slide it, it use the rear camera with a periscope like feature to make them look in front, that way a simple included feature allow to have privacy, none of the stupid issues caused by the front camera, AND using the superior back/main camera(s) for taking selfies and videos, hell the portrait camera could even have special additional lenses to change the ideal natural portrait focus distance to a more selfie specialized one, making it more versatile without requiring additional sensors.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 31 Aug 2020
dbjungle, 31 Aug 2020I'm a consumer and I want a hole punch. I don't ... moreWell, I am for diversity, what would be the best is if around 30% had no front camera, 20% had pop up, 20% had bezels (with almost all of them having biometric sensors like the Samsung S8/S9), 10% had punch holes, 10% had notches (5% with teardrop and the 5% with larger one like the Huawei Mate serie), and the remaining 10% had underdisplay camera.
This way, more than enough of each tech would be available while the most common would be the privacy respecting, secure unlocking and non display interrupting ones.
Because I am a consumer, and I want no front camera or pop up with 3D facial recognition, 3.5mm Jack and large area ultrasonic FPS, and lets say that there is simply not a single phone matching remotely that while phones with punch holes literally invaded the market.
See the issue ?
And well, that's because unlike other industrie, the Smartphone one doesn't care what customers want, its up to us to make it change.
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- dbjungle
- 47L
- 31 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 31 Aug 2020Holes in the display CANNOT BE A SOLUTION, literally read t... moreI'm a consumer and I want a hole punch. I don't use cases on my phone and definitely don't want to carry around an accessory just for front camera functionality. I definitely agree that there should be more variety. The industry converges on one thing and one thing only is what all consumers want, but unfortunately people don't work like that.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 31 Aug 2020
Andreidinutu, 31 Aug 2020"Not a single reason"? Yeah we have all the space... moreSmartphones shouldn't be under 10mm thin anyway, for some rare occasion why not, but for most/all ? There is no point.
I discussed it with my GF, her Redmi Note 9 with his thick case is 11mm and my OnePlus 6T without case is 8.2mm thick, she clearly prefer the handling of the Redmi Note 9 with the case than the naked OnePlus 6T, same with the Redmi Note 9 without the case.
That's why she stopped buying Sony phones, as she found them too thin despite she love Sony phones.
There is no point but only diminishing returns (compromises, smaller batteries and other things like that) under 10mm and there are peoples who even find them uncomfortable to hold, no one who want thin phone is able to explain why, it is just a trend thing.
A phone between 10 and 15mm would be ideal, 15mm being the average thickness of a human finger (from the side) and being totally natural to hold, it would solve the "internal space" issue.
Also, if the space was really an issue, they would have ditched the USB port and switched to magnetic connector instead, but the truth is, there is NO JUSTIFIED reason to remove the Jack except having an excuse to sell ridiculously expensive wireless gimmick thingy.
And considering that except XLR this is the best analog audio standard we can have, there is many equipment compatible with it and the USB to Jack dongles aren't even universal making them non compatible through each brands...
There is both no good justification to remove the Jack for any other reasons than to put a magnetic connector, and there are many good reasons to keep it.
Those who push to the removal of the Jack are the typical egocentric egoistic person who think "I don't use it, so regardless if many other do use or even need it, I don't, so get rid of it, because a stupid trend of "EvErYtHiNg MuSt Be DiGiTaL" told me so".
- Andreidinutu
- mEA
- 31 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 31 Aug 20203.5mm have alternatives ?
What about my Corsair Void Pro, ... more"Not a single reason"? Yeah we have all the space in the world to put our internals in the phone. I wonder why we don't have computer cpu's and gpu's in there as well.
Seriously man, is this so hard to think about? Does it look like your phone can fit anything?
This phone even takes half of it's space with the flip camera, and it still has all the key aspects! It's a wonder!
- w
- wbpwns
- uSW
- 31 Aug 2020
Andreidinutu, 30 Aug 2020This is a great awnser. Yes it does take space. And I can u... moreI said it takes up display space. We used the screen. Whether we have to tap in that area or not, every part of the screen displays information whether homescreen or whatever app or game is on the screen.
The notch and hole were done because people wanted less bezels but it defeats the purpose when you remove the bezels but take away a space from the screen itself. Bezels don't display info or need to be tapped/swiped like the screen itself. That's why notches and holes are stupid.
Either use under display or popup or flip or samsung a80 style cameras or dual screen phones. Don't add problems like notches or holes when there's no e in the first place.
And in the race for fullscreen, there's still chin up to now. Stupid manufacturers forcing this crap on consumers.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 31 Aug 2020
Furiounx, 31 Aug 2020I'm not sure I understand your argument. Anyways there... more3.5mm have alternatives ?
What about my Corsair Void Pro, an EXCELLENT gaming headset that have a 3.5mm Jack, or basically ALL the pro grade equipment with 3.5mm Jack, why you think musician doesn't use Bluetooth but expensive Guitars that are worth over 4000€ have a Jack ?
Removing the jack is totally stupid as there is a LOT of compatible equipment, many still being used by a lot of users, and anyway a VAS MAJORITY of peoples expressed their serious displease reaction of the removal of the jack, there is NOT A SINGLE advantages of removing the jack except selling you proprietary equipment, also the Jack can do more than just audio, it can stream many other type of data, if you want more space, take thicker phones, there is no single advantages of a phone under 10mm, between 10mm and 15mm (the average thickness of a finger) is the ideal thickness of a smartphone.
The ONLY valid reason to replace the Jack would be to replace it with a magnetic connector serving the same purpose, which doesn't take any internal space other than a tiny, flat board.
Front camera have many alternatives, between what I talked about (a foldable and compact periscope system integrated in the phone's case) to external monitor and webcams, funnily enough some of those webcam actually connect to the Jack port, sweet irony.
Also there are bluetooth camera, so there is the SAME alternative too, they already exist, same for connecting to external monitor, this already is a thing.
Also, while the Jack cost pennies, removing the front camera would also make the phone cheaper, AND the main camera setup would gain additional space while already being superior in every way compared to the front camera.
Also, not only Bluetooth isn't as good as Jack in quality, but also, it drain energy and you have another thing to charge, hell no...
I prefer by far my good gaming headset over those crappy earbuds things.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 31 Aug 2020
dbjungle, 31 Aug 2020I've done it plenty of times and I take selfies too. ... moreHoles in the display CANNOT BE A SOLUTION, literally read this sentence out loud :
Removing a part of the display to achieve FULLSCREEN !
Note the word "full" in "fullscreen", the concept is so stupid that even the sentence doesn't make sense, imagine having a hole in your TV...Smartphones display are already small enough to not remove parts of them, and on Android, making stuff on the notification and status bar, that already have limited space, is the WORST IDEA, which is why the notch make sense on iPhone and not on Android, because iOS doesn't have notifications displayed on the top of the display.
And EVEN if it was a good solution, which it is NOT, remember that it have been created because Android phone makers tried to copy Apple with the notch, but it is such a poor idea on Android that they tried to shrunk it until it became a single hole, there are LOTS of peoples that don't want that, and unlike a jack, that doesn't cause any negative effect on the phone's owner, a damn hole in the display isn't something you can just ignore, intrusive tech can exist, but certainly should NOT be a majority, bezels should be as many as punch holes currently are, pop up as many as notch currently are and phones without front camera as many as those with bezels currently are, punch holes and notches should be as rare as pop up.
But again, the smartphone industry DOESN'T CARE AT ALL about what customers want, they blindly follow the trend and only react SOMETIMES, if it is too unpopular.
Well, the USB-C port, analog or not is the next in line, and minority hating on 3.5mm Jack that currently want it to disappear are to get a huge reality slap in their face once the USB will be gone.
I did NOT talk about something you carry around like this :
https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2010/06/ishotmyself-660x369.jpg
I literally said IN THE BACK OF THE PHONE CASE !
Meaning something like this :
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GYXJB8L
But more elaborated with a second mirror to make the main camera look in front of the phone, in one piece and retractable.
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- AnonD-909757
- pZQ
- 31 Aug 2020
hmm, 31 Aug 2020That would be solved when they just make the phone more the... moreI used to promote second display on the back and pop up, but peoples always had stupid and totally false arguments against them, so now I don't try to go easy anymore, I directly talk about phone without front camera.
This is EXACTLY because we are already spied upon by many and because it will worsen over time, same with what is done with the data they collect, that you need to start acting for privacy NOW.
I am disappointed, as someone who don't want selfie camera, I was expecting you were more aware of how bad privacy intrusion are and not just talk about it as if it was no big deal.
Read and watch that :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjspu7QV7O0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcSlowAhvUk
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/coronavirus-lockdown-surveillance-tracking-dictatorship-authoritarian-united-nations-privacy-a9438561.html
https://library.ahima.org/doc?oid=300413
Privacy is EXTREMELY important, peoples will SERIOUSLY regret in the future to not have been more careful about it.
You think that because you do X or work at Y it doesn't have anything do to with you, but if in the future, some minorities you are part of, peoples with certain ideology you follow or even just being part of a random list you aren't even aware of are to be targeted, or simply if your government turn dictatorship, and for ANY reasons you oppose it, lets say you'll regret that modern tech doesn't allow you to be more anonymous than that and all the illegally collected data about you.
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- Furiounx
- 7tn
- 31 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 30 Aug 2020You know what, lets follow the exemple of those wanting to ... moreI'm not sure I understand your argument. Anyways there's a huge difference between the removal of both you listed. 3.5mm aux has an alternative; Bluetooth. It also has an advantage; saving space. While removing the front camera may save space (?), it's not feasible as there is not a reasonable alternative.
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- Furiounx
- 7tn
- 31 Aug 2020
Dometalican, 30 Aug 2020"make it yourself" That's a common and ve... moreLmao it's not an argument to be taken literally. Of course I don't expect somebody to attempt that but there's literally NO use in expressing an opinion that would make NO sense for companies to even entertain the idea.
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- dbjungle
- 47L
- 31 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 30 Aug 2020Peoples will say "WhAt AbOuT vIdEo CaLl" despite ... moreI've done it plenty of times and I take selfies too. I don't wanna carry some weird mirror thing in my pocket just to take a pic. But, I do think there is a use case for secondary rear screens as the camera on the back is always better.
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- dbjungle
- 47L
- 31 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 30 Aug 2020You know what, lets follow the exemple of those wanting to ... moreOnce those people win they can start making phones without ear pieces too. Because it's a trash old school analog technology. Then sell bluetooth wearable ear pieces and justify that it was courage that allowed them to do that.
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- dbjungle
- 47L
- 31 Aug 2020
hmm, 30 Aug 2020These al companies dont make the compact phones. All they d... moreI definitely agree about phone size. They make 2 phones, normal phone and pro version. They skimp the heck out of the "normal" smaller phone and make it barely less expensive than the pro version then use that as justification that people want to carry an iPad Pro sized device in their pocket. I was an enthusiast for a while, but this year almost everything is huge and I really stopped caring. The Pixel 4a is my favorite phone in a very long time.
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- dbjungle
- 47L
- 31 Aug 2020
Dometalican, 30 Aug 2020I feel a lot of those under-display votes were bots wanting... moreIt's because all of these GSM Arena polls are setup in ways to force a certain outcome. It's something like Q: Will you be buying a Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Pro?, A1: Yes this is the best phone ever or A2: No I want a Nokia 3390 and I hate the environment.
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- dbjungle
- 47L
- 31 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 30 Aug 2020Well, sadly, the same way pop up phone are rare and there a... moreSingle hole punch or the Huawei wide hole punch with ToF are the best solutions IMO.
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- hmm
- m2J
- 31 Aug 2020
AnonD-909757, 30 Aug 2020Peoples will say "WhAt AbOuT vIdEo CaLl" despite ... moreThat would be solved when they just make the phone more then 10mm thick and have second screen in the back side of the phone that is like 2.5 inch just for taking selfies and video calls. We dont need to have the selfie camera at all. Well i sometimes use it for skype calls cause i dont have webcam. I work in warehouse so i have no problem about the spying problems. And well we are spied on by everything anyways. Is it China or is it US dont really matter as they all do it. Now with the beer bug virus they make aps to spy even more on you