Samsung unveils new 108MP sensor, new 48MP sensor for periscopes and ultrawide cams

15 September 2020
There's also a 64MP sensor for main cameras as well as a 32MP sensor for selfies. All four feature 0.7 µm pixels.

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John, 20 Sep 2020I really have no idea why that DroidBoye and Nick Tagataka ... moreTo be fair, I'm not defending QB. I'm defending the one with proper "detail" which just incidentally, isn't the Sony 1 II. Want proof? Go to the money bills right at the "BANK of ENGLAND" name would show you a circle with radial lines. The ones that can resolve those lines without making them too soft is the one that shows details. When a Bayer sensor could not properly see a line or the color that it has, it tends todo anti-aliasing to properly spread the line to its RGB pattern to establish its existense and color. Anti-aliasing is contrary to details. I'm with Huawei with this and that's not a prejudistic decision, I simply based it on available controlled samples from GSMArena. That guy YUKI saying about details pointing towards samples (part of the image) where details isn't apparent and that's not right.

The thin and colored radial lines were the best representation of resolving details. But hey, it seems that you've made a much better sample yourself where you based your opinion upon. I won't argue on that unchecked data but for you it's the best right? lol.

John, 20 Sep 2020I really have no idea why that DroidBoye and Nick Tagataka ... moreWell can't you just look at an established shot from GSMArena? At this point, if you can't replicate the exact same tests being made using an established set of rules then your samples were just a random set of opinions instead of a well refined experiment. Well what can you say about the lowlight samples showing the 2 money bills? Can tell whether which one shows proper details based on the rendered thin lines on the sample bills?

John, 20 Sep 2020I really have no idea why that DroidBoye and Nick Tagataka ... moreYou're completely missing the point and I honestly don't see what you're seeing at all, and yes I'm not looking at those samples on a mobile display. Either I'm the blind one, or you are.

Anonymous, 20 Sep 2020"To be honest though, bringing up GSMArena's char... moreYou don't understand the issue here do you. GSMArena's picture comparison chart is for comparing JPEG image quality of phone cameras in auto mode. If you want to compare sensor capability (which is exactly what YUKI93 is trying to do here) then you need a RAW comparison with all parameters set to equal (though probably that won't be possible due to different apertures and some other potential factors so at least the same ISO) like the one on DPReview. The chart is not simply useful for the topic that we're having a discussion on.

The same goes with John who commented after you, you guys are both talking about which phone takes better photo in auto. It's not even a matter of whether you two are right or wrong, you are simply missing the point.

  • John

YUKI93, 18 Sep 2020https://www.gsmarena.com/quad_bayer_sensors_explained-news-... moreI really have no idea why that DroidBoye and Nick Tagataka guy trying to defend Quad Bayer camera so hard. I actually have all the phones that you selected from that comparison tool. I played with their camera and viewed them on my Samsung 55" 4K TV. One thing is totally clear - the Sony is by far the most detailed and accurate of the two. The OnePlus is actually not too bad on daylight, but suffer some detail loss during lowlight though you need a sharp pair of eye to notice it. As for the Huawei, well that's a total joke - enough said. It look good on the phone screen, but it look utterly crap on the TV. At the time of this writing, I still have the Huawei with me but I am more than ready to sell it to interested buyers.

  • Anonymous

Nick Tagataka, 20 Sep 2020The textures on the money bill and the brown paper holding ... more"To be honest though, bringing up GSMArena's chart to compare sensor capability was a terrible mistake in the first place if you ask me"

If that is a terrible mistake, then why GSMArena keep updating the photo comparison tool? They could have just deleted the whole thing away from the server if you think you are right.

YUKI93, 19 Sep 2020Proper details on that Huawei? LOL, THAT IS LAUGHABLE! Look... moreThe textures on the money bill and the brown paper holding colour bands right next to it are not from oversharpening, they are real fine details. Slight distortions on the rubber bands and the metal fish are due to lens quality and nothing to do with the Quad Bayer itself, either. On top of that, P40 series employs aggressive cropping and upscaling for some random reasons that we're not sure of, so on this chart P40 Pro is already severely handicapped in terms of resolution before even taking those factors into consideration..

Matching or slightly losing against an effectively 9.1MP sensor with non RGB colour filter in detail level is not an accomplishment. To be honest though, bringing up GSMArena's chart to compare sensor capability was a terrible mistake in the first place if you ask me.

YUKI93, 18 Sep 2020https://www.gsmarena.com/quad_bayer_sensors_explained-news-... moreI think I answered your doubt in my previous comment.

"The combination of array conversion + super res image stacking has been already proven to be great for producing high resolution images"

This means that demosaicing will NOT be needed as each pixel could acquire red, blue and green light information without resorting to interpolation from neighboring pixels. While this method is not the best at capturing very fast moving objects, I don't think anybody would want to use 40+MP regular Bayer sensor to capure them on a smartphone either given their very slow readout & processing speed leading to severe rolling shutter effect and long waiting time between each capture.

Google is stuck with 1/2.55" sensor because they are bunch of software-is-what-matters-the-most ideologists who also like to cheap out on hardware, and Apple probably didn't want to increase the camera hump/cost or both on iPhone 11 Pro when adding the third camera would already do those. As for Sony, I believe they like traditionalism and their camera team probably didn't have a lot of faith in the idea of Quad Bayer or they had no idea how to properly utilise it, so went through an easier path and chose a regular Bayer sensor instead. No matter how you spin it, theoretically it is impossible to produce sharper images out of 12MP Bayer sensor than out of 48MP QB sensor. There's simply not enough spatial resolution available in the former to match the detail level of the latter when shooting photos at full res on both sensors.

"the only way to get a sharp or bright photo in low light conditions without sacrificing the detail"
You can perform pixel binning to achieve the same effect on QB sensor.

"That is why Sony Xperia 1 ii's low light photos look far better"
First of all I can clearly tell that colours look oversaturated on Xperia 1 II, though I'll pass it off as being post processing related and not sensor derived. It also seems that it relies on much longer shutter speed compared to other two, one of which captures a bit sharper detail than Xperia despite shooting at half the exposure time. I'm definitely confused, how is anything shown in this test chart suggesting the superiority of the regular Bayer filter to QB?

YUKI93, 19 Sep 2020"Look at the money bills of the Huawei from the link y... moreThere are lines being ignored or let's say aliased by Regular bayers that quads can properly represent. If you can't perceive the absence and existence of such, I'm pretty much convinced that you're not capable or just lacking justification or understanding with regards to how sensors perceive "detail" or how they act during the lack thereof.

YUKI93, 19 Sep 2020Proper details on that Huawei? LOL, THAT IS LAUGHABLE! Look... moreThe GSMArena Logo is NOT a representation of details. As I've said, look at the money Bills and see how they make out the thin lines, letters and details on the face of the human in the paper bill, those are representation of details if you really are referring to it. Use a sample where detail really is apparent.

DroidBoye, 18 Sep 2020IMO, the main reason why big brands such as Google or Apple... moreProper details on that Huawei? LOL, THAT IS LAUGHABLE! Look how oversharpened the detail is! Look at the GSMArena logo, the rubber bands, and also the metal fish on bottom-right. It's a total joke! Even the OnePlus did a much better job than Huawei.

DroidBoye, 18 Sep 2020IMO, the main reason why big brands such as Google or Apple... more"Look at the money bills of the Huawei from the link you provided and see what proper details looks like compared to Sony's regular Bayer sensor. (Set scaling to None)."

Proper details on that Huawei? LOL, THAT IS LAUGHABLE! Look at how oversharpened its detail! Even the OnePlus did miles better!

YUKI93, 18 Sep 2020https://www.gsmarena.com/quad_bayer_sensors_explained-news-... moreIMO, the main reason why big brands such as Google or Apple for example doesn't use QB for their smartphones is because of AF speed (Quad Bayers are slower than regulars but Sony's been developing on this front) and their algorithms that prefers image stacking the output of regular Bayer sensor which is already tried and tested faster method. Remember that 48MP Quads are just Regular Bayers with huge (4 grouped as one) photosites at 12MP as what Gcam sees as an example.

Lowlight is the main advantage of Quads, they can basically take one shot HDR without stacking (without ghosting) at their native 12MP (for 48MP sensor). You want detail? Look at the money bills of the Huawei from the link you provided and see what proper details looks like compared to Sony's regular Bayer sensor. (Set scaling to None).

Nick Tagataka, 17 Sep 2020Why did you quote a tweet from 2018 then? Obviously his kno... morehttps://www.gsmarena.com/quad_bayer_sensors_explained-news-37459.php
"In a Quad Bayer filter, the pixels of different color are further apart, so demosaicing is less effective (despite what makers claim). So, you’re definitely not getting 4x the detail in 48MP mode than you do in 12MP."

There's a very good reason why Google, Apple, and Sony didn't use QB sensor on their phones despite Sony being the most popular QB sensor manufacturer around. Frankly speaking, the only way to get a sharp or bright photo in low light conditions without sacrificing the detail is to use a regular Bayer sensor. That is why Sony Xperia 1 ii's low light photos look far better than any flagship Android smartphone with QB sensor. I let this do the talking: https://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=5&idPhone1=9919&idPhone2=10096&idPhone3=10152

Outdated? I don't think so.

YUKI93, 16 Sep 2020You do notice that the tweet was from two years ago, right?... moreWhy did you quote a tweet from 2018 then? Obviously his knowledge on QB vs regular Bayer sensor is outdated at this point.

Anonymous, 16 Sep 2020Lol, you are talking as if software is more important than ... moreGo to medium to low light environments or backlit scenes and you'll see Nokia 808 starts to fall apart.

"Huawei and Apple are the worst offender"
If that's what you want to believe then you can stick to your own belief, but after looking through hundreds of camera samples from tens of flagship phones I can confidently say that's very far from being true.

  • Suresh Ridets

Anonymous, 16 Sep 2020Lol, you are talking as if software is more important than ... moreJust imagine 808 pureview with google camera software, it will blow all phones.

  • Anonymous

Nick Tagataka, 16 Sep 2020The combination of array conversion + super res image stack... moreLol, you are talking as if software is more important than hardware. Over my dead body on that! NOT ONE of today's smartphone camera can produce equal or better photo processing than the old Nokia. Today's smartphone camera is all about software AI and oversharpening mess, and both Huawei and Apple are the worst offender of all! Maybe you are the one who doesn't want to admit that hardware physics is still important.

Nick Tagataka, 16 Sep 2020The combination of array conversion + super res image stack... moreYou do notice that the tweet was from two years ago, right? At that time, only Huawei do the QB sensor.

YUKI93, 16 Sep 2020But regular Bayer high-res sensor can still maintain its pi... moreThe combination of array conversion + super res image stacking has been already proven to be great for producing high resolution images with great per-pixel detail level, which then can be downsampled if needed, so with mature algorithms (i.e. Google's or Huawei's level) that's not a huge problem actually. But it is indeed understandable that a guy who developed a camera for Nokia 808 wouldn't have wanted to admit that QB also has many advantages over the traditional Bayer array.