ZTE Axon 30 with second-gen UD camera to launch on July 22

21 June 2021
We'll finally see if the new Visiononx UD selfie cam will offer clearer shots.

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Demongornot, 22 Jun 2021Well, I am not against the UDC anyway, I am against it beco... moreI agree, there should be more innovation and individuality in each company

  • Jon

ZTE is ok phone, but I do not buy another one untill android 10 is OTA for ZTE axon pro 10 5G. It's promised but nothing happens!

TEtech, 22 Jun 2021Like I get it, but exactly this stuff is keeping the innova... moreWell, I am not against the UDC anyway, I am against it becoming the only option.
There are tons of other things we need to have innovation into, but exactly because the smartphone market only focus on a single device type/design/feature set, they won't happen.

Look at the GIMOD tech for example, it is much better than Oled or even MiniLed and MicroLed.

Same with having a single big and powerful sensor coupled with a real zoom lens (meaning it can go from Ultra-Wide to Telephoto), continuously variable zoom as they call it, but they insist on multiple sensors just to have a bazillion camera.

Or switching from physical to magnetic ports for both USB and Jack, as it is the perfect compromise of portless (as it is a connector but technically not a port) while still having wiring, it is cheap and can't be damaged by pulling on the cable and is totally water sealed, it also takes virtually no internal space.

Demongornot, 21 Jun 2021*Cost, it requires a special pixel configuration which is c... moreLike I get it, but exactly this stuff is keeping the innovation alive

Dudenoway, 22 Jun 2021(forgot I had to say more) ur comment is so long it's ... moreI simply prefer writing everything in a single comment rather than missing key points and having to debate them in other comments, leading to even more comments.
The only times I make short comments, I always end up having to explain or avoid people trying to use the lack of info as an argument.

Also, I use comma how they are intended to, meaning I make a new line, and put an empty line between each different parts to make it more readable.
Your comment on the other hand have not a single new line, it would appear much longer if you did.

Anonymous, 22 Jun 2021stop replying to him you are wasting your energy and time bruhI would also prefer that people don't reply rather than replying non-sense, like me constantly writing I would like that there is a bit of everything in the market and people answering as if I want a single feature to be the only available option, despite the whole point of my comment being about how much better for everyone it would be if phones were diverse.

Dudenoway, 22 Jun 2021First of all stop being paranoid about the so called *priva... moreDo you realize you really both said:
"stop being paranoid about the so called *privacy*"
and
"It's obvious that every company spies on u and oems can still see through cameras"
Privacy is a much more serious threat that a picture taken once, it literally can lead to life-threatening and ruining identity thief and blackmails, and literally loss of individual and collective freedom, experts give many reasons why it is dangerous, how can you, someone who have no knowledge in the subject, do state that we don't need "to be paranoid" about it?

And then what? Who care? There are still people who want to buy it, if you don't, then don't buy one, it isn't because YOU don't want a phone with a pop up that no one else should have one, that's what I fight for, CERTAINLY NOT for EVERY phones to have a pop up, but simply, so it still exists.
And this is BS and disproved by the simple fact there are only few reports of pop up ever breaking, many people proved times and times again it handles more than enough falls to be not a problem, AND it only is at risk when it is deployed which is ONLY when you use it, and there are MANY like me who rarely use the front camera, basically except for face unlock, I don't.

Wrong, a lot of people find stupid to have a hole or a notch in their display, in EVERY polls ever, except before those were released and there was hype behind them, the MAJORITY of people clearly voted they hated them, it is consistent across the whole internet, AND, there are many non-techy people who actually also don't like them, and those who don't care would also be happy with a bezel.

Again, what about those who are totally fine with having a lower quality front facing camera or simply don't care about it?
Second, even the Meizu 16 have a 20Mp selfie camera and despite being a midrange it has a really good selfie camera quality, and it was one of the first to have such thin bezels.
The same apply for the Black Shark 3 Pro who also has a 20Mp front camera.
Third, if you really care about quality, you simply DON'T use the front camera, you either buy a Zenfone 6, 7, 8 Flip which grand you an amazing quality, thanks to using the main sensor, or like many do, you have a case with a mirror on the back.
Fourth, again, I NEVER said I want any solution to be universal, this is literally why I defend things like pop up that I wouldn't want myself that it invade the market, and those who want phones without front camera could buy it, those who don't could simply buy another of the bazillion phone with one.

Again, the smartphone industry is totally different from any others, they DON'T care what people want, it would be quite easy to make different designs, enough so there is a good enough chances to find any non-standard feature and design mix.
It includes someone who would want a big midrange with curved edge display, underdisplay camera, portless and big premium camera setup, as well as a small but thicker phone with top end SoC but a flat display, bezels and a single and simple, cheap main camera, and anything in between.
And like EVERY other business do, it is simple to just make LESS of those who are in less demand, not less different models but simply produce less units for each models.
Of course niche features will be on less phones than popular one.
But here we have many features that are totally left aside and the same again and again.
People are tired of 2Mp Macro + Depth combo, many would want them to simply not exist at all, yet there are flooding the midrange market and even some high end have them.
That's the issue.
Having a single design per company is stupid, look at Motorola since 2018, they did actually bring some kind of diversity, and there are no issues with it, you have bezels (G6, E6), pop up (Hyper, One Fusion+), punch holes (G60, G100, G9 Plus...), teardrop notches (Defy, G30, G10...), bigger notch (G7) even a foldable (Razr), different camera module locations (Defy, G9, G20, G100, Edge, G7), flat and curved edges display but not as an automatic premium option, and the front, side and underdisplay FPS, still have phones with 3.5mm Jack, etc.
It just needs to not be attached to a price range, we need low end with punch holes and high end with bezel too, few midranges with curved edge.
Midrange with premium camera and high end with basic camera to bring the cost down like the Pocophone F1 who was extremely popular for that.

  • Billy

K, 22 Jun 2021This tech is the future of slab phones. If companies contin... moreI don't completely get the edge to edge display...who cares if there is a tiny1/16" space at the top for the camera and speaker...Look at the Red Magic 6/Pro. It's perfectly placed camera..leaves no notch, no hole or any other dumb shape of missing screen.

Anonymous, 22 Jun 2021your previous comments were making a bit sense but now you ... moreWhat do you mean "whatever I am remembering"?
And believe it or not, but I rarely report comment, and I didn't report a single comment in this article's comment session.

  • Anonymous

Dudenoway, 22 Jun 2021First of all stop being paranoid about the so called *priva... morestop replying to him you are wasting your energy and time bruh

Dudenoway, 22 Jun 2021First of all stop being paranoid about the so called *priva... more(forgot I had to say more) ur comment is so long it's longer than earth-to the edge of universe

Demongornot, 22 Jun 2021Past a certain point, knowing which one is faster is irrele... moreFirst of all stop being paranoid about the so called *privacy* and stuff like that. It's obvious that every company spies on u and oems can still see through cameras like punch hole bezel or notches or ud camera. Pop up is also more fragile yes it breaks and whatever elthe auto detect flall detection gimmick it has it will break and bam, u lose ur selfie cam. Also 90% of people don't care about punch hole or notch and only those idiot 10% hate them and *miss* the bezels. First of all if u want bezels like xperia thin or some gaming phone thin with camera then u can only put small ancient 8mp sensor. Also why would u not want more screen but less things inside it. No selfie cam is the only solution but then people would start complaining... Also u said that we need diversity like a million times and yes I agree but why not have a world wide poll which costumer can choose the design for different company and that company have to do same design. Sounds like a pretty dumb idea

  • Anonymous

Demongornot, 22 Jun 2021Past a certain point, knowing which one is faster is irrele... moreyour previous comments were making a bit sense but now you are just saying whatever you are remembering and yeah ban me too like others

Dudenoway, 22 Jun 20211.optical ud fingerprint is not faster but slightly slower ... morePast a certain point, knowing which one is faster is irrelevant, and the S21 and Meizu 18 are more than fast enough, but the main issue with optical is that it is by far the least secure one, while ultrasonic currently is the most secure one while barely using like 15% of what we can do with it.
Optical FPS is yet another privacy issue :
https://www.androidauthority.com/xiaomi-fingerprint-sensor-camera-1146605/
And Ultrasonic can be used not only under the display, but on the side and on the back too.
And out of the 3, the ultrasonic is the only one who can easily and cheaply be scaled to the whole display, and thanks to its "tap" rather than "press" it can enable what we call continuous authentication, which could be useful at locking a non recognized user out of a banking app.

The issue isn't about if it is considered or not as a trend, the issue is that punch holes and notches are well over 95% of the whole market, they don't leave any space for anything else as it is basically the only thing that came to phone designer mind nowaday, and the underdisplay camera simply want to take their place as the only available option, which is also a problem regardless how good or bad the tech is, no tech that much percentage of the market except obvious things that can be easily just ignored like IR, Jack, Dual Sim, SD Card slot, etc.

I defend whatever tech isn't taking the whole market, when punch holes and notches will be rare, despite that I don't like that, I'll defend them as long as there are people wanting them and there will be hard to find a phone with them, same for the UDC.
And as long as a tech is in too many phones and is intrusive in a way, like punch holes and notches being in the display, pop up that many don't like, sliders that cut the phone in half, second display on the back, as opposed to no front camera at all or bezels who are simple, I'll fight them until they aren't flooding the market anymore.

OnePlus is a bad example, remember that there was a poll where they asked if people wanted the 3.5mm Jack, the vast majority said yes, yet they ditched it anyway...
If you use my electromagnetically actuated pop up concept, you gain space compared to the motor actuated version while gaining total water sealing too.

I didn't say people don't care about IP rating, I said it is overrated, it protects way less than people think it does, a phone don't need it to be well protected, and none of the major brand cover water damage anyway, only few obscure brands do.
The issue with IP rating is that many things it is total waterproofs, and many phones get lost to liquids because of that.
And yeah, the issue is that those phones also lack the 3.5mm Jack, SD Card, IR, some lack a Telephoto sensor, many lack decent resolution secondary sensors with often sub 12Mp being there, etc.
And the biggest issue is the lack of diversity, we don't need all flagships to be the same, we need phones with diverse setup, including flagships with pop up a little like the Vivo NEX 3 and Oppo Find X, other with IP rating, etc.
Right now there isn't any new phones except the Lenovo Legion that have a pop up, same with bezel that only Sony and few gaming phones still has (the rest start to get infected with the punch hole disease), that's the main issue.
Was IP rating really good, I wouldn't mind that it put a serious hit against pop up, the issue is that while every negative points of the pop up is widely exaggerated, to the point where this robust and reliable tech is almost described as being as fragile as a sugar sculpture, and IP rating which has many problems is described as the ultimate perfection...
It isn't about the pop up, it is about diversity, or lack of it, that the pop up is part of.
Remember that I don't say pop up should be everywhere or the only available option.
It won't kill to make a few flagship smartphones with a pop up and no IP rating, and won't change that the rest will be able to get IP rated, what it will change will be that those looking for it will be able to have it.
And it isn't even about demand, the issue is that the smartphone industry don't care at all about its customers nor what they want, they just push the same features again and again as it is more convenient for them.

K, 22 Jun 2021This tech is the future of slab phones. If companies contin... moreThere are other options available than notches and punch holes, that's exactly the point.

Every other front camera option will be affected, exactly like punch holes and teardrop notches drowned every other alternatives, such as bezels, pop up, sliders, second display on the back and other no front camera designs, including many potential designs not even considered as the industry is solely focussed on punch holes, teardrop notches and underdisplay camera.
I know that pop up, sliders and others are kinda niche, but how can bezel disappear despite being loved, demanded, simple, practical and actually when well done quite elegant?

Demongornot, 21 Jun 2021Yes, anything I can do to "sabotage" it enough by... more1.optical ud fingerprint is not faster but slightly slower and look at poco f3.it has a oled display so it supports ud fingerprint,but it's ud fingerprint is very fast. So fast that it's almost a touch. Tbh the rear mounted or side mounted are equally fast but they have thier own cons execp for speed.
2. I also said that I would have no front camera with slim bezels. Tbh punch hole and notch isn't a trend anymore. It's been like 3-4 years since notch and punch hole came. Ud display camera can be an alternative but it has failed.
3.And yes when u said I hope this tech fails badly I know ur reasons I saw them in a thousand articles in the comment section but u should hoep this tech gets better actually so that its a alternative to them. 4.also a lot of ppl don't care much either way and I dotn think so we can put ip68 with pop up on a PHONE atleast cuz there prob worn be much space. No wonder op removed pop up from op 7t pro and 7 pro and 7t(Idk what models but it was from 7 series) 5.again u say most ppl don't care about ip rating. Ur basically complaining about every type of phone like flagship and midrange and budget and flagship killer. Problem is for flagships and not on midrangers and budget phones and flagship killers. U see u pay mostly 800+ bucks so u should be getting a complete package right like il rating qhd and amoled 120 hz and blah blah. And I even said that it's a problem flagships not other phones

  • K

Demongornot, 21 Jun 2021I really hope this tech will fail enough, so it loses its h... moreThis tech is the future of slab phones. If companies continue to make tear drop or hole punch m...at some point people will stop upgrading. People upgrade also for new features/designs not just for specs.

Also you said this UDC will affect variety. What designs/variety will this affect?

Dudenoway, 21 Jun 2021Basically I see u every where where ud camera article comes... moreYes, anything I can do to "sabotage" it enough by basically telling the harsh truth, so it doesn't become the only available option, I'll do.
IP rating is far less necessary than people think it is, I'd trade any IP rating for a pop up any day.
Plus, the pop up can be made IP68 compliant, LITERALLY submarines have a pop up if you think about it, their periscope act the same way, and well, they need to be "a bit more" than IP68, it was already the case 100 years ago.

I'd take a phone with no front camera but a slim bezel like the ones in the Nubia Red Magic that host proper ambient light and proximity sensors, over anything else (pop up, regular bezel, no bezel at all, etc).

As for ultrasonic FPS, the S10, Note10, S20 and Note20 basically use the first of its kind, made by Qualcomm, and called the "3D Sonic", and while many were expecting since the S20 that they would switch to the much better "3D Sonic Max", they didn't, add to that a poor implementation from Samsung and a hugely limited use of the potential by Qualcomm...
The S21 and Meizu 18/18 Pro FPS are ultrasonic and easily among the fastest in the world.
The S/Note 10/20 should be compared to the first optical UD FPS which were equally slow if not slower.
Also, there are quite a few things to do to improve its performances, "taping" rather than "pressing" it is one of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1G_Hu44bxE
Remember that while an optical one literally see the ridges and a capacitive one get a map of them, the ultrasonic raw data require more complex computation, it is sound imaging here, if well done, you can do amazing things and do them quickly, using an ASIC do handle the data processing would be the best way to make them, it already scan underneath your epidermal layer and could also check density to makes sure it is indeed flesh, read veins and other stuffs.
And Samsung did many things that made it quite slow, there are even some power saving options that slow it down (couldn't find the video), but Samsung implementation is not representative of the tech capabilities.

Anonymous, 21 Jun 2021Periscope is not gonna work with wide field of view like 20... moreWhy not?
If you use a parabolic mirror + a collimating lens, you get a wide angle.
The thing with light is, you can technically focus a very large image into a tiny area, then defocus it latter and not lose any quality.
Considering that on top of a bezel you have the whole phone body thickness for you, you can use a setup of 90° parabolic mirror + collimating lens + 90° mirror to a focus group lens who also defocus the ray to match the sensor size.
Moving the collimating lens will have a zoom effect allowing to change the focal length enough to go from Wide to UItra-Wide.
You can easily do the same on the back too, allowing for a single and wide sensor to be used for both main and front.
Here is a really, really simplified example :
https://imgur.com/a/xsfQmAr
From the website : https://ricktu288.github.io/ray-optics/simulator/
For the setup, at first I made a tube with 3 points of light, one far, another closer and one close, to simulate light from different distances, though without a focus group it doesn't do much here except make how parallel the rays are look messy.
Then I used an "ideal curved mirror" with a focal length of 33, followed by a lens with a focal lens of 85 for doing a collimating, but those aren't computed values, I just did it by hand until the result look not too bad, so it isn't anything serious.
And finally, it is just a 90° mirror.

On the first screenshot, the ray density is voluntarily low, so you can see the setup as you may not be familiar with this website, and then I pushed it to "make the computer lag" level to be more representative of the reality.
Note that the final ray is focusing rather than defocusing, but it is because I didn't fine-tuned it at all.

The point is, as long as, through a wide enough front element and initial lens (or mirror) you get an Ultra-Wide (you could also go as far as fisheye), regardless how you transform the rays latter, before the sensor, it is totally doable, don't forget that an Ultra-Wide is basically a reversed Telephoto.
The only trick here is to be able to get a wide enough initial bean through the mirror, but otherwise, what's happen between the two mirrors of the periscope is the same as a Telephoto one.
In fact this is exactly what I did in this concept :
https://imgur.com/gallery/tIXYDCW
One of the two path (top) is Wide/Ultra-Wide (with a continuously variable zoom) with a mirror opening to a pop up (which is itself only a 90° prism/mirror), and the other path is a Telephoto.

Demongornot, 21 Jun 2021This is exactly what happen when you talk while not knowing... moreBasically I see u every where where ud camera article comes. Prob ur 2.4k comments are all just about ud camera 😂. Pop up I setter yes but no ip rating is a huge con. Surely not on midrangers but flagships cuz they are flagships and they need ip 68.maximum u can get is ip 53 or splash resistance. Also I would love to not have a camera on front with slitly thin bezels just like s10 but it has punch hole. Also I saw u saying alot of time that ultrasonic ud fingerprint is faster than optical ud fingerprint but my father has s10 which is very bad fingerprint even though its under display