Check out the 3D Ultrasonic fingerprint scanner of the vivo iQOO 8 Pro

18 August 2021
The biggest sensor in a commercial smartphone that reads more than one finger at the same time.

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  • D
  • AnonD-909757
  • pZV
  • 20 Aug 2021

Anonymous, 19 Aug 2021How can an under display camera help if you are wearing mask? People keep failing to understand that when putting the camera behind the display, regardless how good the image is after the software compensate, any biometric can only use the real (RAW) data prior to any software, and the quality UDC give is so bad it will only make awful security...
Moreover, ToF and Structured light don't just see through, they also need to emit light, which will get disturbed and occluded in both the way out and back it, making it even worse.
Underdisplay camera is the worse nightmare of biometric.
After all, there is a reason why ultrasonic, with sound easily getting through materials, is much better than optical fingerprint scanner which is the worse kind of fingerprint scanner in existence...
The only real use of putting a camera behind something it can't perfectly look through is when you don't care about image quality, but you do want the camera to be concealed, which is literally the main point of spying/surveillance hardware.
Funny that it is the main hype in smartphones who are already a privacy nightmare...
Add a privacy nightmare feature in a privacy nightmare device, what could go wrong?

    • S
    • Samm
    • NXP
    • 19 Aug 2021

    Impressive 👍

      • ?
      • Anonymous
      • rJX
      • 19 Aug 2021

      yalim, 18 Aug 2021under display unlock technologies will be the new hype for ... moreHow can an under display camera help if you are wearing mask?

        • D
        • AnonD-909757
        • pZV
        • 19 Aug 2021

        AnonD-1003038, 19 Aug 2021Fingerprint scanners on the back are stupid. If you have yo... moreI used to say the same, but after I got my first phone with a FPS, the Nokia 6, then my OnePlus 6t, and now my Poco F2 Pro, I actually don't remember to unlock even once my phone without grabbing it once.
        Besides, many DO LIKE the FPS there, there is no "stupid" when it is a matter of preferences.
        And because it is often only on cheap phones, many who prefer it there are forced into getting cheap phones only.
        We don't need phones to be all the same, well, not more than they currently are, we need diversity, that mean as much availability for those who want a phone with X, Y and Z features AND also front, side or back FPS location.

        FaceID is FaceID, it is the Apple implementation, and while it is one of the best (simply because there are so little like it), it isn't the whole 3D face recognition market nor its best potential, again, partial face recognition is a no-brainer to implement.

        The best phones DOENS'T lock you into one biometric, but give you the choice.
        This is one of the reason why Huawei phones were so popular, they gave BOTH a fingerprint scanner AND 3D face recognition, even if the newer phones they made replaced the Structured Light by a less effective ToF.
        They were not shy on features, they often did put good camera and a lot of features, no surprises they got so popular.
        With Wireless charging, Telephoto, latest Gorilla Glass, NFC, complete sat-nav suit, SD card, it isn't surprising phones like the P30 and Mate30 series got them so much popularity.
        It is crazy that despite all that, people didn't understood the golden rules that EVERY MARKETS on the planet except Smartphone do :

        *If it is a non-intrusive feature, meaning those who don't want it can just not use it, and it isn't too expensive, just include it by default, MAINLY if it is a high-end product.
        *If it is an intrusive feature, make several variants, some with, some without, of the same product, or different products, so there is availability for everyone.

        Huawei being so close to this "strangely" got so much success they almost took the whole market, while many other brands only included some of those features and without their already acquired popularity wouldn't have been successful.

          • D
          • AnonD-909757
          • pZV
          • 19 Aug 2021

          Anonymous, 19 Aug 2021I think the last paragraph u said is somewhat wrong 3d son... moreNope, the 3D Sonic Max have been easily retrofitted into a phone (looking to be a simple OnePlus 7 Pro) :
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeTm5sd8ktg
          It also is much slimmer than you think it is, it is slimmer than optical ones, and Samsung could have EASILY fit it in the S/Note 20.

          Back when it was revealed, the Max was called second generation.
          The first gen, "3D Sonic", yes, not the Max.

          You've just didn't look properly then :
          https://www.dignited.com/55420/3d-sonic-max-heres-what-to-expect-from-qualcomms-larger-fingerprint-scanner/

            • D
            • AnonD-909757
            • pZV
            • 19 Aug 2021

            Anonymous, 19 Aug 2021I am not sure whether you are trolling or serious.Why would this be a troll?

            It isn't because I say some harsh truth about some things that it is false/wrong.

              • ?
              • Anonymous
              • tDG
              • 19 Aug 2021

              [deleted post]Sure, its gsmarena
              But the person who said about mask first that trigger me to reply that
              And that show their awareness about this pandemic that happened nowdays
              And if that make you uncomfortable, im sorry

                • ?
                • Anonymous
                • Hx9
                • 19 Aug 2021

                AnonD-909757, 18 Aug 2021FINALLY! Samsung first botched implementation of the FIRST... moreI am not sure whether you are trolling or serious.

                  • ?
                  • Anonymous
                  • wd8
                  • 19 Aug 2021

                  AnonD-909757, 19 Aug 2021TL;DR : Except that, this is because of Samsung we didn�... moreI think the last paragraph u said is somewhat wrong
                  3d sonic max has a huge area coverage and the s20 and note 20 did not even have enough space to fit it, and sonic second Gen ultrasonic fps came by from Qualcomm which is used by s21
                  Sonic max was released in start of Jan 2020 and sonic second Gen fps in 2021.
                  Fitting a small fps is a huge task for samsung as u have seen how small the area is always and u are asking to fit a double size sensor.
                  And also the first Gen fps from Qualcomm was exclusive for samsung for half of 2019.
                  There is no news or source about what u said in the web

                    • ?
                    • Anonymous
                    • tDS
                    • 19 Aug 2021

                    Nick Tegrataker, 19 Aug 2021Does it make you feel good to brag about how you're be... moreSome people can't think that far
                    He even doesn't know that he's wrong

                      Anonymous, 19 Aug 2021Wear three masks if you want to, but stop telling everyone ... moreDoes it make you feel good to brag about how you're being a potential virus carrier?
                      Just think about other people, please.

                        • D
                        • AnonD-1003038
                        • puk
                        • 19 Aug 2021

                        AnonD-909757, 19 Aug 2021Underdisplay =/= fingerprint scanner. Many prefer having i... moreFingerprint scanners on the back are stupid. If you have your phone on the desk you need to always lift it if it's screen up to even unlock it and who puts the phone screen down like a savage to have scanner on the top side? It's only placed there on cheapest phones because it's the easiest to built-in with plenty of space. Side mounted is much better if it has to be outside of display. It can be accessed regardless of phone position on desk and because it acts as power button it's pretty nice. Underdisplay one is imo the best. It's where all the content is and it's always facing the user. Companies only botch it when they place it way too low making it hard to put a thumb on it while holding the phone. Something this should solve thanks to its massive size. If we can believe the schematic anyways.

                        As for FaceID, people totally overblow its usability issues during pandemic due to masks. Usually people who never used it at all and are all smart because they heard MKBHD mention it or something. Reality is, when you're in public during pandemic, you don't really use the phone much, because you're not out much anyways. Those few times when I did need it, I just punched in PIN or pulled mask down for that 1 second and put it back. And when you're at home, you don't need to wear the mask anyways and that's where you probably use your phone the most anyway. It's only an issue for ApplePay because it requires biometric and PIN isn't enough.

                        Realistically, that's about as inconvenient as using fingerprint scanner with gloves every winter of our normal non-pandemic lives. Actually it's hard using any phone with gloves because of capacitive touch sensing.

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                          • Anonymous
                          • TLP
                          • 19 Aug 2021

                          Anonymous, 18 Aug 2021People wear gloves or have wet hands much more frequently. ... moreironic.

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                            • Anonymous
                            • tDS
                            • 19 Aug 2021

                            Anonymous, 19 Aug 2021Wear three masks if you want to, but stop telling everyone ... moreQuote: "Wear three masks if you want to, but stop telling everyone else what to do"

                            This kind of thinking process is what i most hate when treating covid patient here

                              • ?
                              • Anonymous
                              • fJ5
                              • 19 Aug 2021

                              Anonymous, 19 Aug 2021Wear three masks if you want to, but stop telling everyone ... moreIf you are infected, a mask will stop you from infecting others. It's selfish people like you that allows the virus to spread.

                                • ?
                                • Anonymous
                                • 0cJ
                                • 19 Aug 2021

                                TEtech, 18 Aug 2021Mask are not for the paranoids but for everyone, the fact t... moreWear three masks if you want to, but stop telling everyone else what to do.

                                And this scanner is hopefully an improvement to the current hit or miss tech, but a secure face ID is still my choice.

                                  • D
                                  • AnonD-909757
                                  • pZV
                                  • 19 Aug 2021

                                  [deleted post]TL;DR :
                                  Except that, this is because of Samsung we didn't get that earlier.

                                  Longer story :
                                  Samsung initially paired with Qualcomm to integrate their first gen, underdisplay, ultrasonic fingerprint scanner called the "3D Sonic".
                                  It has been implemented on the S10, then on the Note10, and after numerous criticisms, people were hoping to see improvements.

                                  Then, at the end of 2019, when Qualcomm announced the Snapdragon 865 and 765, they also announced their second gen ultrasonic FPS, the "3D Sonic Max", which had a lot of improvements compared to its predecessor, including a bigger readable area :
                                  https://www.androidauthority.com/qualcomm-3d-sonic-max-1061753/

                                  Who was able to allow two finger authentication at once, and was the first to be commercialized and to have that big area, people that knew about it were expecting Samsung's next flagship to come with it, after all, Samsung were the only one to use this tech, and they are supposed to put the latest techs in their phones, but at the disappointing surprise for us, the S20 didn't feature it, so we hopped that the Note20 would, and...
                                  Nope, it kept the simpler, older "3D Sonic"...

                                  Then, if you read some less known news, you'll find that Apple did approach Qualcomm about this during this event, and may have made a contract with them, after all, the reason why they didn't jumped on the optical FPS wagon was the same reason why they didn't use a simple camera based 2D face recognition, they wanted it to be secure, which Face ID was originally done to counter the Galaxy S8 and S9 Iris scanner they knew would come (as Samsung used regular camera based Iris Scanning prior to those two), and optical FPS were much less reliable than the capacitive one they had with their previous phones.

                                  Though, why they didn't choose a side or back capacitive FPS on top of Face ID rather than removing Touch ID entirely is beyond me...
                                  But they knew that ultrasonic one could allow Touch ID to come back and to be even more secure, regardless if it complements or replace Face ID, they really want it, and multiple rumors and some announcement I've seen until now confirmed it, I thought it would be with the iPhone 12, but it will be with the 13, apparently.

                                  The issue was that, in the meantime, Samsung asked Qualcomm to make the 3D Sonic Max a Samsung Exclusive, Qualcomm refused, probably because they already had customers, and Samsung reacted like an immature child and simply refused to take this sensor because of this.

                                  While Apple was actually planning to implement it on their iPhone, Samsung who had everything at hand to put it in the S20 and Note20 totally refused out of arrogance.
                                  And it was more than obvious that Qualcomm was waiting for Samsung to implement it, so everyone would see how good it is, then want too to have it on their phone, probably creating a win-win situation where Samsung would always have a one gen/model lead and Qualcomm mass selling those easily.

                                  So in the end, it was actually Samsung who just has to not act like "that" who made this tech not come into the market almost two years ago...

                                  And I guess that, because of the botched implementation Samsung did with the original 3D Sonic, the image of ultrasonic FPS was too damaged for any brand to consider it for the time being, except Apple who knew the real benefits and didn't care what others would think as long as it works well, and Meizu who were brave enough to make the Meizu 18 and Meizu 18 Pro with one (though I don't know what FPS model it is) not far after Samsung the S21, and now that Samsung have the "second gen" in the S21 (the 3D Sonic Max is now considered first gen too, probably a marketing move to tell that their sensor is totally different now) and it proved to work well, brands are starting to get toward this tech, not because the tech is good, but because, as usual, Apple or Samsung did it, and they just copy them without thinking twice...

                                    • ?
                                    • Anonymous
                                    • t@S
                                    • 19 Aug 2021

                                    AnonD-909757, 19 Aug 2021Underdisplay =/= fingerprint scanner. Many prefer having i... moreFacial scanning will not work whether it is a 3D scan or 2d scan, if the large portion of the face is covered by a structure that changes the shape time to time then it will struggle. Iris scanners have no problem with a mask since it only scans the eyes which are always exposed unless one is wearing a pair of sunglasses.

                                      • D
                                      • AnonD-909757
                                      • pZV
                                      • 19 Aug 2021

                                      yalim, 18 Aug 2021under display unlock technologies will be the new hype for ... moreUnderdisplay =/= fingerprint scanner.
                                      Many prefer having it on the size or the back.

                                      Masks shouldn't prevent it, you still have half of your face visible, including your eyes, that, alone, are already a good enough biometric target, if Face ID struggle it is because Apple failed at it, not because 3D face recognition doesn't work.

                                      You don't always wear a mask, thankfully, nor we will need to wear them forever.

                                      There are NO REASONS to have one over the other, exactly like airbags and seat belts in cars, we can perfectly have both together and have advantages of using them at the same time, but unlike cars, we can also let those who prefer one over the other choose which one he prefers.

                                        • ?
                                        • Anonymous
                                        • JHA
                                        • 18 Aug 2021

                                        AnonD-909757, 18 Aug 2021Or maybe, just maybe, he likes face recognition regardless ... moreYou're fruity

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