Sony IMX800 detailed: 1/1.49" sensor with 54MP resolution

31 May 2022
Rumors cited different numbers: 1/1.0", 1/1.1", etc. Different resolutions too. Now here are the actual specifications.

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  • ?
  • Anonymous
  • uS{
  • 19 Aug 2022

The leak about this sensor definitely became confusing.

The 1/1.1" never happened and the 1" became the IMX989 but not for Huawei but rather for Sharp and Xiaomi

    • ?
    • Anonymous
    • pLh
    • 12 Jun 2022

    Denis Thomas, 11 Jun 2022That's a great idea. I would totally love options like... moreHaving a high dynamic range in photos is almost always desired isn't considered a fault, unless in some specialised photographic scenario maybe. So it's not the problem. An increase in dynamic range in unavoidable in computational photography and it's really never a bad thing.
    This is not to be confused with excessive saturation or inaccurate colour, which is a post-processing problem rather than computational photography.
    In GCam HDR+ can be turned off so there will be HDR, but results are really worse, try it yourself. Computational photography or HDR+ not only improves dynamic range but also noise, stabilization and low light performance. It really reduces the need to larger sensor quite a bit, which is why it could rival DSLR sometimes.
    So the problem is aggressive post processing. This causes oversharpened, highly edge-enhanced, overly denoised (to the point details are lost), over saturated photos with inaccurate colour. HDR+ is never the problem.
    As for specialized/creative photography with dramatic looks, smartphones were never designed for that and will not be in foreseeable future. I think smartphones should get the basics right first, which is to capture a photo that tries very best to mimic what your eyes see. To do that, post processing should be allowed to be controlled by user, and computational photography is always a positive.

      Anonymous, 04 Jun 2022You'll never get the best out of these big sensors as ... moreThat's a great idea. I would totally love options like how much noise we want, how much HDR, saturation, contrast etc beforehand, but this is only happening in controlled parameters. Like in pixels, you can edit the bright and dark areas beforehand. That's neat. But you have no telling on the HDR final output.

      I'm still using my XZ premium and won't change it anytime soon. It's still awesome for me. But the cameras on phones have evolved dramatically since 2017. More specifically the HDR processing.

      Apple is quite aggressive on that, and that's not always good. People under sunlight end up looking orange where sunlight hits them because the HDR us limiting the light on their faces. This is obviously awful. It would be great if apple was letting people do what they want beforehand. Like no HDR. Sometimes a dramatic look is better than a flat one. Especially during sunsets, I think strong contrast works in these situations better than HDR, but phone makers (except Sony) doesn't let people know if they gonna get the final result they want. And even Sony, Sony is only using very little in computational photography. I think the best would be the option to choose if we want to use computational parameters, how much of it, or not.

        • L
        • Lccy
        • n1k
        • 07 Jun 2022

        AnonF-1006353, 06 Jun 2022Yeah sometimes. HDR+ images look quite artificial and/or ju... moreTo my knowledge all JPGs are 8 bit so it shouldn't make a difference what display you view it on, but Apple uses heic which is capable of 10 bit, but I don't know whether there's any additional dynamic range. They image can look flat because sometimes they use tone compression to squeeze the light into the photo.

        I doubt you could get much more dynamic range out of raw, it's the sensors that are the limiting factor.

        I don't think it's against forum rules to exchange contact details, but the thread should be dead now, I'll think of how we can exchange details to continue the conversation

          • F
          • AnonF-1006353
          • gD$
          • 06 Jun 2022

          Lccy, 06 Jun 2022I think there probably will be merging artifacts, but with ... moreYeah sometimes. HDR+ images look quite artificial and/or just too flat. I wonder if that would change when the picture is viewed on a HDR screen that could output the same amout of light intensity as in the original scene. I mean, in order to not have overblown highlights while watching it on a screen set to 200 cd/m2, there's only a limited range of colours and light intensity available, hence the flat look. But would the photos actually contain more colour and light information when using heif or raw? To make these orange dull skies glow again and see the fine tonal range of e.g. clouds in it.

            • L
            • Lccy
            • n1k
            • 06 Jun 2022

            AnonF-1006353, 04 Jun 2022Wouldn't focus stacking introduce some merging artifac... moreI think there probably will be merging artifacts, but with HDR+ there are merging suggests too, but it's not too bad most of the time, my only complaint would be that the images can look unnatural.

            Lytro used to make a camera that you can refocus after shooting

              • m
              • mampara
              • r4L
              • 06 Jun 2022

              Will it take good low light pictures?

                • ?
                • Anonymous
                • pLY
                • 04 Jun 2022

                JGS88, 02 Jun 2022Hey, can't gsmarena spend some time in the Sony camera... moreNo, never. I'm assuming you mean comparing different phones with different sensors and see which sensor is best? That's never gonna work because post processing and computational photography isn't same across these phones. And these things today often have bigger effect on image than sensor differences. Even the quality of OIS matters too. Also the aperture size and focal length. Too many variables.

                  • ?
                  • Anonymous
                  • pLY
                  • 04 Jun 2022

                  You'll never get the best out of these big sensors as long as OEMs push their terrible post processing and not let users control those parameters.

                  Yeah you can take RAW, edit and make jpeg but that's long process. Why not just allow control post processing beforehand so pressing the shutter produces a final jpeg tailored to the taste? There are very few gcam builds that allow it but don't work on every phones.

                  Btw I'm referring to post processing i.e. sharpness, denoise, saturation etc, and NOT computational photography i.e. HDR+. There's no complaint against computational photography as it make phones rival DSLR sometimes, but to get that you need to get rid of terrible post processing in the first place. You can try out GCam builds that allow editing "lib patcher" or something like that to see it for yourself

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                    • AnonF-1006353
                    • gD$
                    • 04 Jun 2022

                    Lccy, 04 Jun 2022To my knowledge, diffraction is a law of physics, the furth... moreWouldn't focus stacking introduce some merging artifacts?
                    Regarding high mp on a smartphone: i know that, that's why i said for well lit outdoor scenes and/or on a tripod. And why a sensor for each scenario would be a good solution. I definitely wouldn't exchange my 64/16mp realme 6 pro with a 12mp phone after all the detailed free hand landscapes and gcam+tripod astro mode detailed star photos i could achieve with it. But I know, the masses want them fast party shots and moving cats and dogs on their pictures.

                      • L
                      • Lccy
                      • n1k
                      • 04 Jun 2022

                      AnonF-1006353, 03 Jun 2022Yeah I meant sweetspot for the purpose of getting the most ... moreTo my knowledge, diffraction is a law of physics, the further you close the aperture, the fewer line pairs that can be resolved.
                      https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/diffraction.htm
                      Dxo software has deconvolution algorithms that try and sharpen the image based on lens characteristics and since diffraction can be modelled, they try and undo the effects, but there's a limit to what that can achieve.

                      If your subject is static, you can do focus stacking, but that wouldn't work with moving subjects. Maybe one day we'll have enough processing power and speed to do focus stacking like we do HDR+ with smartphones.

                      Another downside to using a high megapixel sensor on a smartphone is that you need to be very steady, smartphones are light unlike cameras. A higher megapixel sensor needs more light and so your shutter speed is slower which makes things worse.

                      Everyone seems to think the bigger the sensor the better on a smartphone, but without a way to stop down, you get a shallower depth of field which can often be a bad thing.

                        GS88, 03 Jun 2022I'dd like to see a comparison between the same sensor ... moreI want the imx677, 1 inch sensor

                          Lccy, 02 Jun 2022I would like to see hardware accelerated Adobe enhanced det... more"Still I think it's a tall order for smartphone hardware to do enhanced details"
                          I mean, an NPU/DSP exists inside all midrange and high-end SoCs nowadays for a reason. They are designed to run a set of very specific workloads at the highest performance while keeping the power consumption extremely low.

                            • F
                            • AnonF-1006353
                            • gD$
                            • 03 Jun 2022

                            Lccy, 03 Jun 2022I don't know the exact crop factor for a 1/1.5 sensor,... moreYeah I meant sweetspot for the purpose of getting the most detailed image possible on such a sensor in well lit conditions. Not sure how visible the additional noise is after pixel binning?

                            I'd even go further and keep the ultra wide, using a bigger sensor with slightly more resolution too for that, so less detail gets lost in between 12 to 25mm. How much does a good sensor and optics in a smartphone really cost?

                            Then 2x 1inch bayers one 64mp and one 12mp, depending on the lighting conditions and movement, the better result is used in auto mode. For digitally zooming the 25 to 70mm range using the 64mp and then a good 48mp >1/2" for the 3 to 4 times zoom range. After that, an optical zoom periscope like in the xperia IV for covering 4 to 10x zoom or more. Would make an absolute Ultra camera phone experience. With the goal to get 8k video on at least one ultrawide and one of the zoom lenses. Not for the masses though, i know.

                            True, the one in the S20 is a nona bayer, I prefer the quadbayers like in the Mi 11 though.

                            Ok optics can be an argument against >100mp on fullframe cameras. I remember comparing lenses for my alpha 7R back in 2014, there were just a few who actually achieved an amount of linepairs transferring to >30mp on that 36mp sensor. But the same optics surprisingly achieved better results on the newer, bigger 7R ii/iii sensors with 42mp though. But I get the limits regarding lens diffraction. Still, isnt't there a way to get around this, working with more glass elements e.g.? At least for certain focal lengths?

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                              • GS88
                              • stx
                              • 03 Jun 2022

                              I'dd like to see a comparison between the same sensor in different phones, like the popular imx766 (at least 7 brands use this sensor in their phones), the imx682 (at least 5 brands) or the imx689 (also at least 7).

                              Or just a comparison between Samsung and Sony on the same sensor (imx555 for Samsung S20/S21 and imx557 for Sony 1 II, III and IV).

                                • L
                                • Lccy
                                • n1k
                                • 03 Jun 2022

                                AnonF-1006353, 02 Jun 2022Thanks, this further proves that 64mp is currently the swee... moreI don't know the exact crop factor for a 1/1.5 sensor, but 64mp on that would still be more pixel dense than the imx363 on the pixels which I already feel are quite noisy and lacking in dynamic range compared to more modern sensors.

                                I personally wouldn't mind scrapping the ultra wide in exchange for a high Res camera, but it's what the masses want.

                                Samsung implemented a 64mp bayer sensor not just for zooming, but for 8k video. All the other phones do not produce true 8k video like the Samsung S20/21.

                                The sensor in the s20u is Nona Bayer, 9 in 1 binning.

                                If you had 150mp on a full frame sensor, making an exceptionally sharp lens that is diffraction limited at f2 at most would be required, that's impossible to achieve at the frame edge, even in the center as well. To achieve such a large resolution, you'd need a wide aperture, the depth of field would be really shallow.

                                In fact, for the 100mp gfx, which has the same pixel density as the a7r iv, it's noted that at the aperture with the sharpest center resolution, the corners are softer, of you stop down for sharper corners, you lose center resolution.

                                Most phone users don't require high resolution and post their pictures to social media, while I think manufacturers are wrong to stop at 12mp, there's also storage and battery life.

                                  • S
                                  • S Yu
                                  • vUX
                                  • 02 Jun 2022

                                  Anonymous, 31 May 2022Machine learning on a smartphone is a different world to MI... moreDo you have the slightest idea what you're talking about? The algorithms are slow to train but fast to run, they're also optimized exponentially when you throw exponential amounts of money at it, which only commercialization could achieve. DXO's Deep Prime algorithms could nearly quadruple effective resolution from set body-lens combinations at high ISOs already.

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                                    • AnonF-1006353
                                    • gD$
                                    • 02 Jun 2022

                                    Lccy, 02 Jun 2022https://www.anandtech.com/show/15845/mobile-phone-camera-ov... moreThanks, this further proves that 64mp is currently the sweetspot for mobile bayer sensors in the 1/1.5" range, if it comes to detail resolution for well lit scenes. The 108mp in the S20U (though its a quadbayer) looks worse, but not sure how a bigger sensor like the one in Mi 11 Ultra would do, with the help of sensor shift.

                                    So I can't understand why some believe that 150mp wouldn't make sense on a full frame sensor which is more than 4 times bigger. As long as the glass is good enough and the hardware fast enough. Some still seem to live in the 2010's. I mean you can always use lower res models if speed, lowlight and storage usage is important.

                                    Yeah the 64mp bayer in the s21 tele combined with gcam could give stunning results with the right config and a little bit of processing time i guess. Now that's something the Sd 8 Gen 1+ and D9000 phones should aim at, highres computational photography. If not overdone, it could look really good.

                                      • L
                                      • Lccy
                                      • n1k
                                      • 02 Jun 2022

                                      AnonF-1006353, 01 Jun 2022Now this could make sense, thanks. Also explains the slight... morehttps://www.anandtech.com/show/15845/mobile-phone-camera-overview-2020-h1/2
                                      I think this was the Anandtech article I was talking about, it's a shame the author is no longer with them.
                                      https://images.anandtech.com/galleries/7633/S20PE_20200506_174417.jpg
                                      On this image, with the Samsung 64mp, I can see that on the books in the pop up shop it says be Venice, Hamptons, rio, Monte Carlo
                                      By comparison with the 64mp lg v60 image which is quad Bayer, I can't.
                                      https://images.anandtech.com/galleries/7633/S20PE_20200506_174417.jpg
                                      It does look better than the standard 16mp image though.
                                      https://images.anandtech.com/galleries/7633/X-T30_DSF2139.jpg
                                      Interestingly I can't read what the books say in the Fuji image. Lg's full resolution quad Bayer image looks better than the other full resolution quad bayer images, so they must be doing some kind of processing.

                                      I wonder if it's possible to get gcam to work with the 64mp Samsung Bayer sensor, that would be amazing as it's paired to a 28mm equivalent lens.

                                      I remember watching a real me presentation where they talked about doing pixel shift for their zoom. I'll try and find the link.

                                        • L
                                        • Lccy
                                        • n1k
                                        • 02 Jun 2022

                                        Nick Tegrataker, 02 Jun 2022Smartphones SoCs usually have a very powerful ISP + NPU com... moreI would like to see hardware accelerated Adobe enhanced details demosaicing chips just as how hardware accelerated h.265 decoding and encoding is much more energy efficient than CPU/GPU decoding.

                                        Still I think it's a tall order for smartphone hardware to do enhanced details, it's something that for the time being can only be done in post.