Xiaomi 12S Ultra's main camera sensor gets measured on video

30 July 2022
For some people everything is a sensor measuring contest.

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  • S
  • S Yu
  • vUX
  • 03 Aug 2022

Nick Tegrataker, 03 Aug 2022First of all, thanks for correcting me regarding the sensor... moreThanks for the reminder on the GH5S, I remember that now, but AFAIK it's a one-off show, Panasonic doesn't have any subsequent models with that kind of sensor...It's basically the only known instance of a "correct" implementation though, because the other models with smaller sensors don't use full sensor height for 1:1 shooting, for some reason.
As for the Sony, the spec sheet is missing mention of "total pixels", yeah, that's a pretty big issue for anyone who looks at that model without doing some digging...but they totally should've just used the whole sensor in the first place, regardless of a minor increase in thickness. The extra thickness could also be used for better heat dissipation and a larger battery.

    S Yu, 02 Aug 2022>you can make a camera with an M4/3 sensor but just use ... moreFirst of all, thanks for correcting me regarding the sensor size notation - you're right, an "M4/3 sensor" makes no sense given that the M4/3 system is just a name of a standard based on a Type 4/3 sensor. I will be just referring to such a sensor as Type 4/3 and to the standard as MFT from now on to avoid confusion.

    Some of Panasonic's MFT ILCs use oversized sensors that provide Type 4/3 equivalent sensor area when shooting in the 4:3 aspect ratio mode. For instance, the company advertises GH5S as a 10.2MP shooter, even though the actual sensor resolution is 11.3MP - meaning this sensor is quite a bit larger than a conventional Type 4/3 sensor.

    LX100 does use a genuine Type 4/3 sensor and uses only up to 85% of its area to capture images, but Panasonic mentions on its product page that the sensor is used for multi-aspect ratio shooting, and clearly states that only 17MP out of 21.77MP are being used under the "Camera Effective Pixels" section of the spec sheet. You don't see such a message on Sony's spec page.

      • S
      • S Yu
      • vUX
      • 02 Aug 2022

      Nick Tegrataker, 02 Aug 2022Sony specifically says they use a "1.0-Type sensor&quo... more>you can make a camera with an M4/3 sensor but just use a portion of it whose area is equivalent to that of a Type-1 sensor to keep the body thin
      Actually, there's just the thing, always advertised with the sensor size, not the image circle: Panasonic LX100, or any of the handful of Panasonics with the so-called "multi-aspect" function.
      BTW it's not called an "M4/3 sensor". "Type 4/3" is the sensor type, in the--you guessed it--Vidicon derived format designation, meaning it's roughly 4x the size of a type 2/3 (aka type 1/1.5) and 16x the size of a type 1/3.

        Anonymous, 01 Aug 2022No need for them to say it's cropped. It says it'... moreSony specifically says they use a "1.0-Type sensor", which strongly implies that the full sensor area is being utilised instead of only 60% of them.

        Let's put it this way - you can make a camera with an M4/3 sensor but just use a portion of it whose area is equivalent to that of a Type-1 sensor to keep the body thin, but you shouldn't be advertising such thing as using an M4/3 sensor.

        "Manufacrurers who use qb sensors advertise sensor megapixels but rarely or never they tell you will get 12mp image instread of 50mp"

        False equivalence, since in that case you WILL have an option to shoot in 50MP and/or digitally zoom in 2x losslessly which would have been impossible with a regular 12MP sensor.

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          • Anonymous
          • LHe
          • 01 Aug 2022

          Nick Tegrataker, 01 Aug 2022"And can we now give deserved credits for Sony for..&q... moreNo need for them to say it's cropped. It says it's 12mp and it delivers native 12mp without upscaling. Manufacrurers who use qb sensors advertise sensor megapixels but rarely or never they tell you will get 12mp image instread of 50mp

            Anonymous, 30 Jul 20221" is almost APSC. Not even phone like Z Ultra would... moreIts not about phone size, its about camera island thickness/tech, besides everything else, companies may come with some folding tech for optics, or just move this camera thing entirely off phone as dangler, kind of like dji action 2. If it could be used as sony qc1 with pancake lens(but reasonably small and light build instead) even better.
            Just matter of choice, important for cameras is for them not to stagnate, remember The Jack?

              Anonymous, 30 Jul 2022It is not ad-supported, it is the common size definition in... moreWell we went from 1/4" to 1/1.3" just fine, I do not expect full frame tomorrow, but increase is definitely a plus for photography. Its way more easy to come with design allowing bigger sensor than to come with tech capable of doing the same on small size(tho most of phones companies do just that).
              Mate X2 foldable as example, 2x thick like every foldable, but most of thickness is used for camera on one side. Why couldn't phones be thicker, they already are(folds). Not to mention other un/released designs, including different folding or rolling.
              Still, I'm happy to hear about improved sensor tech and better computational photography, as it makes cameras more mobile, exactly what mobile smartphone device is about.

                Mobilemaster, 30 Jul 2022That sensor would take much space(imagine a real size 1 inc... moreNot so hard with camera ''islands'' on phones getting thick lately.

                  Panino Manino, 31 Jul 2022It's unfortunate, it's a problem that was bound t... more"And can we now give deserved credits for Sony for.."

                  Nope. Sony could have deserved credit if the utilised sensor area on Pro-I was indeed Type 1 equivalent instead of Type 1/1.3, but it wasn't and Sony still doesn't mention the sensor crop anywhere on its product page. People questioning their marketing method at that time weren't mad about the discrepancy between the Imperial unit inch and the optical format inch - they are just two separate issues, so don't try to get them all mixed up.

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                    • Azza2
                    • 3G@
                    • 31 Jul 2022

                    Just wanted to say a 1" type sensor is 13.2 × 8.8mm. 251.68 mm sq. area and 15.9mm diagonal. Just clear up my typo earlier.

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                      • Anonymous
                      • rN7
                      • 31 Jul 2022

                      I don't know how different the sensor size is to the Panasonic cm1 but every time another 1 inch sensor comes out the cm1 gets skipped over or they claim well it was only this so it doesn't count....it existed...it counts. Final facts.

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                        • Anonymous
                        • rN7
                        • 31 Jul 2022

                        Panino Manino, 31 Jul 2022It's unfortunate, it's a problem that was bound t... morePeople are never upset with Sony for doing the right thing. They are upset with them for making devices years behind others in numerous aspects and charging way more for them.
                        Or things like their latest release advertising a 50% increase in brightness where really it only increased like 30 nits. Manual brightness increased about 50%. So huge flat out deceiving lie.

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                          • Azza2
                          • 3G@
                          • 31 Jul 2022

                          Sensor sizes are scaled by using vertical and horizontal axis. For example, a 1" sensor is an imperial measurement used in legacy standards. A type-1 sensor falls below micro four thirds and above any crop sensor traditionally found on mobile devices like phones or drones/action cams.

                          So a type-1 sensor is about 13.8 x 8.8mm. The diagonal size is found by square the x and y axis. Then adding those 2 figures together. Then you find the square root of that sum. This works for all sensors.

                          Generally 35mm is full frame is 36 x 24mm which has a crop factor of 1. This is used to define and compare the scale of other smaller and larger devices.

                          So when it comes to mobile cameras it is why you see 1/1.7 at 24mm. Which means that sensor is 30% smaller in scale. Therefore has less light capture and needs ai compute or pixel binning tricks to "increase" the perceived reproduction.

                          Of course, the lens you use also makes a difference. Can you imagine an android camera with the AI available ? But in some ways a closed development cycle prevents people bricking their own devices.

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                            • Anonymous
                            • Kx7
                            • 31 Jul 2022

                            Anonymous, 31 Jul 2022So you can't make a circle large enough to accommodate... moreyou can snap the phone to two easily if they using your suggestion..look Jerry rig the phone survive bending test.
                            but dont know if they using your measurements

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                              • Anonymous
                              • r48
                              • 31 Jul 2022

                              Anonymous, 31 Jul 2022So you can't make a circle large enough to accommodate... morelmao , sure if u want permanent vignettes

                                Nick Tegrataker, 30 Jul 2022??? The actual sensor size is 1 inch in optical format, and... moreIt's unfortunate, it's a problem that was bound to happen as smartphone sensors got bigger and approached this 1 inch size closing in to SLR 1" cameras.

                                And can we now give deserved credits for Sony for anticipating this confusion and properly marketing the Pro-I as having a "Type 1 inch" sensor? Remember when people were mad at Sony for "deceiving consumers" for doing the right thing?

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                                  • Anonymous
                                  • ndm
                                  • 31 Jul 2022

                                  Anonymous, 30 Jul 2022well. no sensor is actually fully used since lens is circle... moreSo you can't make a circle large enough to accommodate a rectangle ?

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                                    • Anonymous
                                    • Lkg
                                    • 30 Jul 2022

                                    Marco M, 30 Jul 2022There is a standard for measurement of camera sensor sizes.... morewell. no sensor is actually fully used since lens is circle and sensor is rectangle.
                                    corner are left behind.

                                      There is a standard for measurement of camera sensor sizes. Traditional camera manufacturers and smartphone sensor manufacturers, as well as smartphone companies all follow this standard.

                                      The sensor in this Xiaomi 12s Ultra is indeed very large as far as smartphone sensors go. The largest one, in fact.

                                      The sensor in the 808 pureview is smaller. Significantly so.

                                      The IMX989 sensor in the Xiaomi 12s Ultra is 50% larger than the sensor in the 808 Pureview.

                                      808 Pureview sensor is 85.36 mm²
                                      12s Ultra sensor is 128.38 mm²

                                      The difference is larger considering the 808 pureview actually only uses about 92.68% of the sensor so roughly 78.11 mm² effective.

                                      Last years Mi 11 Ultra's main sensor, the 98 mm² GN2, was also larger than the 808 Pureview, same pixel size though, just more of them in the 11 Ultra.

                                      The reason the 808 PV is thicker and the 12s Ultra is thinner is time and progress.

                                      Since you're talking about lens elements, the 808 PV has 5 and the 12 Ultra has 8. The 12s Ultra has another benefit, a larger aperture f/1.9 vs 2.4.

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                                        • Anonymous
                                        • Lkg
                                        • 30 Jul 2022

                                        Tear down shows it has own ISP like Vivo X series uses V1 and Pro-i has Bionz X
                                        It will be enabled with updates later.

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