vivo X100 Ultra camera details leak
- N
- Nick Tegrataker
- Xp6
- 10 May 2024
Anonymous, 10 May 2024Not obvious at all.
1. Analog pixel binning reduces read... moreIt is pretty obvious for a few reasons:
1) The default output would be most definitely 12.5MP because that's how it has been on pretty much every single phone apart from the iPhone 15 series. Analogue pixel binning of 50MP sensor (or 200MP Quad Bayer sensor) into 12.5MP could cause a loss of image quality compared to pixel binning 200MP Tetra2pixel sensor into the same resolution.
2) It would be easier to create a slightly improved version of HP3 rather than developing a brand new sensor that also uses a different colour filter arrangement.
3) Vivo's demosaicing/super-resolution image stacking algorithms have proven to be very effective at eliminating colour artifacts caused by remosaicing (See X100 Pro's 2x crop zoom shots). It's safe to assume that 50MP output from 200MP Tetra2Pixel would be comparable to 50MP output from 200MP Tetrapixel and the loss of resolution would be fairly negligible in real-life shooting situations.
4) 200MP type 1/1.4 sensor would be completely diffraction limited on an F2.67 lens, therefore a difference in the amount of captured details between a Tetra2pixel sensor and a Tetrapixel sensor of such resolution would be very similar in a full resolution mode.
It's not about whether they *can* put a 200MP Tetracell sensor, but rather if they *could practically* do it and there would be any *strong incentive* for them to do it or not.
- R
- Rkm
- FY0
- 10 May 2024
Anonymous, 10 May 2024So Samsung has this much higher mega pixels lenses and stil... more'200 megapixel sensors'. The keyword being 'sensor'.
They don't have the optics to incorporate that sensor.
- ?
- Anonymous
- xjH
- 10 May 2024
So Samsung has this much higher mega pixels lenses and still decide to put petty 10mp and 12mp.. why are apple and Samsung so stingy? Apple still sell a base MacBook with a 60hz while their iPad pros which is kinda the same price with an air MacBook launch with a 120hz. Big companies with little brains.
- ?
- Anonymous
- 4Ha
- 10 May 2024
Anonymous, 10 May 2024Not obvious at all. 1. Analog pixel binning reduces read... moreBy the way are stating in their marketing that their final "infinity stone" to complete the x100u was low-light/concert photography (in addition to implying the x100p had the other 5 "infinity stones" figured out), it makes me assume their focus was prioritizing capturing poor lit, moving objects over maximizing quality in well lit environments. Though I'm not going to pretend I know which filter type/autofocus system I'd use if I were told that was the goal. 🤷🏻
- Just my opinion
- fXH
- 10 May 2024
WhoCaresTM, 10 May 2024I'd take an iPhone 15 pro, let alone 16 pro, over any ... morelol okay
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- Anonymous
- JHk
- 10 May 2024
Nick Tegrataker, 10 May 2024This isn't even a "question" - It's pai... moreNot obvious at all.
1. Analog pixel binning reduces read noise, which can be the dominant noise source in very bad light conditions. For 0.56 micrometer pixels with an f/2.67 lens, read noise should become relevant at about the same exposure time as for 0.7 micrometer pixels with an f/3.5 lens (Pixel 7 Pro, S24 Ultra) because 0.56/2.67 is approximately 0.7/3.5. So, the 0.56 micrometer pixel size is not an issue here. And with a Quad Bayer sensor and binning turned on, you would still get a 1.12/2.67 ratio, which is comparable to 1.4/3.5 (Pixel 7 Pro, S24 Ultra). And averaging multiple frames improves the signal to noise ratio anyway.
2. Performance of a tele camera in good, average light conditions is more important than its performance in very bad light conditions in my opinion. A Tetra²pixel color filter array won't perform as well as a Quad Bayer or Bayer array in good light conditions due to demosaicing issues.
3. Even in bad light conditions, there will often be some objects (for example a bright sign) that would still show more detail with a 200 megapixel Quad Bayer sensor + 4-1 pixel binning or 200 megapixel Bayer sensor without pixel binning in comparison with a Tetra²pixel sensor in its 16-1 pixel binning mode.
4. There are even some Bayer sensors (for example Imx 219) with analog pixel binning. The color filter array of a Bayer sensor may lead to worse analog pixel binning and hence worse low light noise performance than a Quad Bayer sensor in pixel binning mode, but the performance in good light conditions without pixel binning is superior and the performance in good light conditions is more important in my opinion.
- N
- Nick Tegrataker
- Xp6
- 10 May 2024
Anonymous, 09 May 2024Another question is whether the 200 megapixel sensor will h... moreThis isn't even a "question" - It's painfully obvious that it will be Tetra2cell given it will be based on HP2 and Vivo has no reason to make it Bayer or Quad Bayer given its minuscule pixel pitch.
- N
- Nick Tegrataker
- Xp6
- 10 May 2024
WhoCaresTM, 10 May 2024Who cares where it's assembled. You can demand excelle... more"Call me when you get lens fogging on an iPhone"
Ah yes, because us Apple users absolutely enjoy iPhone's never-ending lens ghosting problems and have all the rights shit on other manufacturers when it comes to camera quality. lol
- N
- Nick Tegrataker
- Xp6
- 10 May 2024
"The same material is used in Sony's new G Master lenses, by the way, which isn't surprising considering the involvement of Zeiss with both vivo and Sony"
Zeiss is NOT involved in Sony GM lenses. Sony's Zeiss-branded lenses were co-developed by Sony and Zeiss, manufactured by Sony and quality-controlled by Zeiss. On the other hand, Sony's GM lenses are all developed, manufactured and quality-controlled by Sony themselves.
Fluorite glass isn't a new material for camera lenses (Canon FL-F300mm f/5.6 released in 1969 used it for the first time), even though Vivo will probably be the first one to feature it on a phone camera.
- U
- User935
- gEb
- 10 May 2024
"This material has previously only been used in professional cameras, hence the aforementioned quote from a vivo exec."
I suppose you mean in professional lenses, not cameras? There's not that much glass on most professional cameras (whereby "professional camera" also isn't really that well defined a term, but never mind).
Anyway, sounds most impressive, but just a small fyi:
https://global.cano n/en/c-museum/special/exhibition2.html
"In May 1969, the FL-F300mm f/5.6—the world’s first consumer telephoto lens to employ fluorite lens elements—was released."
So... Dear phone photography (or "photography"?), welcome to the 1960s! 🤷♂ Guess I'll be sticking to an actual camera for a couple more decades till a few more specs reach real cameras' 1969 levels.
- W
- WhoCaresTM
- 0mU
- 10 May 2024
Anton .el PAPI., 10 May 2024When the iphohe is assembled 100% in the United States and ... moreWho cares where it's assembled. You can demand excellence from anyone, anywhere. The problem isn't Chinese manufacturing. It's cheap business decisions made by Chinese companies like Vivo and Xiaomi. Call me when you get lens fogging on an iPhone, a 5500 mah battery that lasts like it's 3500, ads on your premium priced phone, only 2-3 years of OS updates, etc.
- b
- brsdrgn
- pmH
- 10 May 2024
WhoCaresTM, 10 May 2024I'd take an iPhone 15 pro, let alone 16 pro, over any ... moreAgain who cares about your opinion!
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- Anonymous
- 0p}
- 10 May 2024
Anonymous, 10 May 2024All 200 megapixel sensors that have been officially announc... moreNobody is going to make a 200MP bayer or Quadbayer.
50MP is too much to apply same disgusting enhancements applied to 12.5MP ..
Too slow to apply HDR.
- A
- Anton .el PAPI.
- 8xr
- 10 May 2024
WhoCaresTM, 10 May 2024I'd take an iPhone 15 pro, let alone 16 pro, over any ... moreWhen the iphohe is assembled 100% in the United States and is not Chinese, we'll talk!!
- W
- WhoCaresTM
- 0mU
- 10 May 2024
Ottonis, 09 May 2024Extremely promising, might very well be THE camera phone of... moreI'd take an iPhone 15 pro, let alone 16 pro, over any Chinese phone any day of the week.
There's a reason 3500 mah on an iPhone is equal to 5500 on a Chinese phone.
- ?
- Anonymous
- JHk
- 10 May 2024
Anonymous, 10 May 2024All 200MP are 16 to 1 All 200 megapixel sensors that have been officially announced, yes. But this 200 megapixel sensor hasn't been announced yet, so the color filter array is not known.
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- Anonymous
- Yet
- 10 May 2024
a "professional camera that can also make calls"
Yup that's your marketing mega BS 101
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- Anonymous
- 0p}
- 10 May 2024
Anonymous, 09 May 2024Another question is whether the 200 megapixel sensor will h... moreHP9 and HP3 are equal.
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- Anonymous
- 0p}
- 10 May 2024
Anonymous, 09 May 2024"But the star of the show will undoubtedly be the 200 ... moreAll 200MP are 16 to 1
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- Anonymous
- 8Kf
- 10 May 2024
vcsjxwxh, 09 May 2024This phone can cost 1400€, s24 ultra noX100 pro was announced for 1300 euros.
This one would never be just 1400.