Sony Xperia 5 II image leaks, shows ZEISS T* lenses, but no 3D ToF sensor

26 August 2020
Sony's collaboration with the famous lens maker should be an indication of a flagship-level triple camera setup.

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  • A
  • Alluuu
  • m2J
  • 27 Aug 2020

Sad, was really looking forward to this phone, specifically for expecting a near exact x1ii spec in a more compact form (smaller screen and possibly smaller battery). The removal of the iToF is a HUGE disappointment for me, as without it, the phone doesn't rise above the competition as x1ii did, it's just 3 cameras and a fancy camera app..

The other thing I don't like is the rounded trim, liked the angular look of x1ii and the promise of x5ii being even more angular, this is completely round all the way..

Don't know what phone to get.. hate samsung for my past experience, being super frustrated with their garbageware, and I don't want a phone the size of a shovel - I want a compact flagship..

    • C
    • Chuck007
    • 2Wx
    • 27 Aug 2020

    Will possibly pick the iPhone 12 over this but this is looking very compelling indeed. Mini flagships FTW.

      Hopefully the ToF is a cost that has been removed... because if this phone is £1000 it will be dead in the water. It needs to be £700-800 or Samsung won't be losing any sleep and Sony won't be stocked at all

        • ?
        • Anonymous
        • LkB
        • 27 Aug 2020

        Anonymous, 27 Aug 2020That missing TOF sensor might be a fatal flaw because it se... moreYou want this phone cheaper than pixel 5?

          • ?
          • Anonymous
          • LkB
          • 27 Aug 2020

          Post on weibo suggest the new button abova cam button is to replace that side function that open list of "favorite" apps.

            • ?
            • Anonymous
            • KAF
            • 27 Aug 2020

            Anonymous, 27 Aug 2020My ideal phone : - 6" 16:9 4K HDR 10bit LCD from ... moreok practical man

              Kriegsherr, 26 Aug 2020the problem is whoever innovates does not matter, the Chine... moreBitter truth! 😔

                • D
                • AnonD-909757
                • pZQ
                • 27 Aug 2020

                Fayth, 27 Aug 2020"I don't want/use it, therefor no smartphone shou... moreSadly this selfish attitude is everywhere, you can't mention wanting a single phone model to have once single specific thing without peoples going crazy as if it would kill them and force them to use it on every other smartphones...

                  • D
                  • AnonD-909757
                  • pZQ
                  • 27 Aug 2020

                  Anonymous, 27 Aug 2020No. ToF is not capable of taking photos nor recording video... moreName :
                  ToF : Time of Flight : ANYTHING that measure distance using the time light take to bounce back from something, regardless if it is a single point (laser autofocus) or a whole scene (depth sensor).

                  Depth sensor : Anything that measure depth information, meaning the distance between itself and multiple points in a scene, it can be from multiple types and use multiple methods.

                  LiDAR : Light Detection And Ranging, ANYTHING that use light to measure depth, this include ToF (by time) and by distortion (structured light).

                  Exemple :
                  Something like a Kinect or the iPhone Face ID, who use a bunch of rays/dots, or similar equipment sometime using lines, that measure distance by measuring how those bend on surfaces are LiDAR and Depth sensor, but they aren't ToF.
                  Kinect : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yr5_0imcbY
                  iPhone (Epilepsy warning) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0BALFPSmRk
                  3D scanner demonstration : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P4zTtDLJv8

                  Laser Autofocus (and other laser rangers) explanation :
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUGu8QYAfiA
                  Here the laser is only used to measure distance, so even if it is a ToF, it isn't a typical 3D Depth sensor nor a LiDAR who both typically are used to build map and not just measure a single point's distance.
                  Note that it doesn't require the laser to blink to work, it can use frequency modulation which continuously fire the laser.

                  Then you have the most popular professional LiDAR type of ToF, the topography mapper :
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lDO1UevAJI
                  This is ToF (as it measure time to get distance) and LiDAR as it use light to make a 3D map, but it isn't Depth sensor as it doesn't get all depth data in a single shot.
                  Those are good for non real time scan (like the topographic scanner) or for basic shape detection like that :
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXnAnxWpPPs
                  And here you can visualise it it action :
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GMNe1GLKvg

                  Then you get a little more complexe with multiple points/laser projected on a line :
                  So now you can rotate the whole array or move with them and you get a depth map in real time, here is an exemple :
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK0dXRHAbag
                  And the result as seen by a car's sensors :
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXlqv_k4P8Q
                  This is Depth sensor as you get depth map, ToF as it use time and speed of light, and by description is a LiDAR.

                  Now there are those working like structured light, who project a serie of points, but rather than measuring the deformation, they measure the time, the new iPad LiDAR is one of such :
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBDFOMj5vD0
                  It project multiple points and measure their distance by the time they require to bounce back.
                  All those sensors DOESN'T need to be high resolution because they are NOT meant for photography and they wouldn't be easily scalable and they are not made at all for photography, they are made for scanning in 3D.

                  BUT, what peoples like you forget is that there is ANOTHER type of ToF/LiDAR that is actually extremely similar to a camera, the Flash LiDAR, which doesn't use points, but rather illuminate the scene with a pulsed or modulated light which isn't split into points, but rather is either a laser who have been unfocused or a regular IR LED, and it work EXACTLY like a regular camera, except for 3 things :
                  There is no sub pixels as it doesn't read color, so effectively a 12Mp would have a third of the pixels a regular camera sensor would.
                  It have a bayer made to filter out everything that isn't on the exact frequency or frequency range of its light source.
                  And it use a really fast array to store a time data per pixels.
                  In essence, those ToF/LiDAR/Depth sensor are literally viewing as if they were taking pictures.
                  It isn't necessarily easy to find good data in general about ToF/LiDAR, but here is a good illustration of what Flash LiDAR are :
                  https://www.researchgate.net/figure/LiDAR-vs-Flash-LiDAR-technologies-Courtesy-wwwfosternavnet_fig3_261333968
                  Now the issue is that, like many things, naming is totally messed up, and Flash LiDAR is also used for both the point grid (iPad like) LiDAR and those without dots but rather a big light flash.
                  And because they are scalable, they can be used to apply depth data to EVERY pixels of a 12Mp image (which is basically what most smartphone render at), allowing things that lower resolution depth sensors can't do because it would require too much processing power to scale the depth data to the image, like detecting edges, fine-tuning details, etc
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXtbWORZqxw
                  Or stuff like this :
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIYxQpPY1UU
                  Which are the future with AR coming everywhere.

                  The funny/sad part is that peoples complain about the idea of higher depth sensor resolution, and at the same time complain that depth sensors are useless, which they are ACTUALLY BECAUSE they are too low resolution, they help a little, but we are really, really, really far from what a high rez depth sensor would allow to do.

                    • ?
                    • Anonymous
                    • X}e
                    • 27 Aug 2020

                    That missing TOF sensor might be a fatal flaw because it seems assists the focusing system. One of the reasons why I hated Xperia 5 - ridiculously slow camera and really bad focusing system. Xperia 5 just can't focus on objects you want too damn often compered to Pixel 3 which I used to had for comparison. Also missing wireless charging will be a deal breaker for me personally unless the phone will cost $500-$600.

                      • H
                      • HuLk
                      • uZa
                      • 27 Aug 2020

                      "5.5 or 5.6 inch screen"........really? Yummmmyyy !!!

                      SONY is again proving to be the strong-nerve company who doesn't follow the mob despite the losses.

                      Though it's difficult to believe in the era where all manufacturers (top to bottom rated) are focusing on how to build bigger phones.

                      A big thumps up SONY for this small phone!

                        i noted that walkman designers has a small role in slightly improve the audio within 3.5mm for xperia 1 ii, but he mentions he wish he can designed a vastly improved audio on comparison with their walkman a series, maybe including parts from their audiophile zx series, he says maybe in the future when he is given the green light to do so.

                        I will be waiting for this, in the mean time, i will use ibasso dc02 which is excellent and ldac on sony wh-1000xm3 as well as aptx hd on my astell and kern xb10

                          The best feature of the 1 II is its ability to completely freeze even the fastest-moving subjects on Earth, and do so with perfectly accurate focus.

                          Most of the people who complain about the image quality are simply those who don't have any idea about photography at all, and not even considering the main strength of the camera, which is in RAW.
                          There's simply no way you can get better results in RAW than in JPEG.

                          "But others can shoot RAW as well!"
                          Sure you do, but it ain't gonna be a native RAW file, as manufacturers would still mess with the images with some processing techniques, and only leave the colors as native as the only RAW part of their RAW images.
                          I know it because i already saw samples of them that still looks more processed than a true RAW file.
                          Anyway the point here is that you can just easily create an image that looks far better than any JPEG image out there if you really know how to process your image, and it's not a matter of convenience when you say that computational photography does everything to you, rather it's only showing your inability to be creative enough not to rely on AI magics to do wonders for you.
                          Heck, photographers even still download manual apps like Filmic Pro on iPhones despite having some of the best Auto capabilities.

                            • F
                            • Fayth
                            • Mdt
                            • 27 Aug 2020

                            AnonD-909757, 26 Aug 2020You are EXACTLY the reason why we can't have nice thin... more"I don't want/use it, therefor no smartphone should have it"

                            I want to paste this on every GSMArena comments section :D

                              • ?
                              • Anonymous
                              • LkB
                              • 27 Aug 2020

                              My ideal phone :

                              - 6" 16:9 4K HDR 10bit LCD from Sharp, 60Hz (no hole, no notch , no curves, no round corners)
                              - SD 875, 6GB ram , 64GB (ufs2.1 is enough) + sd card slot
                              - 20MP bayer 1" , 25mm f2.8 - 3.2 , 4K@24/30p , HDR, 10bit, 120Mbps
                              - 13MP 1/3" front cam with 22mm f2.0 + 4K @30
                              - IP68, gorilla virtus (GG7) on screen, carbon fiber body.
                              - usb3.2, 3.5mm jack , front stereo speaker
                              - 6000mAh, 15W
                              - side FPS
                              - NFC, BT5.2

                              I do not need: Ultra wide, "zoom" camera, Qi, reverse Qi, face ID, desktop mode, game modes, antutu boost mode, macro/depth cam, pencil/pen, button to summon assistent, 100W, , 12/16GB ram, 128/256/512/1000GB storage, 120/144Hz, Argumented Reality, Virtual Reality.

                                • ?
                                • Anonymous
                                • LkB
                                • 27 Aug 2020

                                AnonD-909757, 27 Aug 2020Actually they take picture, but rather than color there is ... moreNo. ToF is not capable of taking photos nor recording videos.
                                It is another kind of sensor.

                                It is not like sensor used as depth which capabilities are disabled by software.

                                  klv12gcn, 27 Aug 2020I'm with you. First thing after buying new phone is... moreYes I do it as well.
                                  It unnecessarily consumes a lot of battery.

                                  Only keep vibration motor on for incoming calls or messages.

                                    Anonymous, 26 Aug 2020SONY should not die. Other manufacturers are innovating not... moreYes true bro

                                      Anonymous, 26 Aug 2020I have used Sony and Samsung. One of the first things I d... moreI'm with you.

                                      First thing after buying new phone is turning off all the vibration feedback, all the feedback sound (camera, keyboard...).

                                      Only phone call and message (SMS, WhatsApp, Telegram,...) I keep sound and vibration on.

                                      But, not all people are like us. They might like their phone to vibrate all the time, so...

                                        • D
                                        • AnonD-909757
                                        • pZQ
                                        • 27 Aug 2020

                                        Makimaki, 27 Aug 2020It was not the point what you ve said. Point was every year... moreI am for MARKET DIVERCITY, meaning smartphone with A features, other with B features, some other with C features, and some having combinaison of those, you just have to choose which one suite your need, and well, if you are upset about expensive phones, the solution is simple :
                                        Buy a damn cheaper phones and leave interesting features for those who are willing to pay the price.
                                        I am sure you are part of those who complain when someone say he would like a non 5G version of a phone, then you go complaining about the cost.

                                        It is as stupid as complaining that supercar are expensive and because they come with better electronic, more modern and powerful engine, they are more expensive, while your budget is on sedan level.

                                        There are sub 200€ phones for you, like the Realme X50 5G, the Realme X50m, Oppo Reno 3 Vitality Edition, Motorola Moto G 5G Plus, Nubia Play 5G and Vivo iQOO Z1x are phones with a snapdragon 765 who can be bought for around 300€.
                                        And I really hope you aren't gonna complain that it doesn't have the costlier chipset while complaining about the cost or say stupid things like talking about the SD765 power as if it wasn't enough.

                                        Even if you want the SD865, there are 400€ phones to be found, like the Vivo iQOO 3, Poco F2 Pro, Realme X50 Pro and Pro Player and Vivo iQOO Neo3 for exemple, so what the heck are you complaining about 800€ ?

                                        I want phone with great setup and I am willing to accept the cost it would have, while YOU are complaining that SOME phones are too expensive for you while alternative having the EXACT SAME damn chipset is available for half the cost you talk about.
                                        Peoples like me are NOT the cause of peoples becoming more expensive, go complain on those who want extra thin phones, they are the N°1 cause of expensive phone.

                                        If you don't want expensive phone with all options, just don't buy it, but stop being egocentric and selfish and thinking that because YOU want a phone without some features it apply to everyone.
                                        No phone ever yet have all features that can possibly be put on a phone, so what are you complaining about ?

                                        Also, you can't be serious about the chipset price ?
                                        Do you realize that there is a whole damn motherboard around it ?
                                        All the external chips aren't freely given with the SoC.

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