Samsung launches Expert RAW camera app for Galaxy S21 Ultra

24 November 2021
It comes with 16-bit DNG RAW support with embedded HDR processing on all cameras.

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CivilizedEntity, 25 Nov 2021Yes, I did test it myself. I've linked the test photos... moreYep, I can definitely see some trace of noise reduction. Regardless of the number of stacked frames, it shouldn't be "clean" like this when the single-frame RAW file is literally full of noise. It's quite disappointing that Samsung followed Apple's route for the approach towards stacked RAW instead of Google's.

If you don't mind, is it possible for you to upload a few stacked DNG files for me? I'd like to edit them myself to see tonality, the amount of recoverable highlight/shadows or how good (or bad) they are in general. Thanks.

CivilizedEntity, 25 Nov 2021Sorry for post error. Here is the correct link to the Exper... moreThanks, I'm taking a look at them right now.

[deleted post]I'm afraid you put the same link for both Stock and Expert camera apps so I'm seeing identical images..

  • CivilizedEntity

CivilizedEntity, 25 Nov 2021Yes, I did test it myself. I've linked the test photos... moreSorry for post error. Here is the correct link to the ExpertRaw photo... https://imageupload.io/i/OgByoFerKE

  • CivilizedEntity

Nick Tegrataker, 25 Nov 2021"It has heavy noise processing" From what I coul... moreYes, I did test it myself. I've linked the test photos down. Both images are taken woth 640 ISO and 1/10 exposure. One from the RAW of the main sensor in the stock camera app and one from the ExpertRaw app. Both DNG files were opened in Photoshop Express, all settings on default. No noise reduction applied, no brightness, nothing. As you can clearly see, the image from ExpertRaw has noise supression on. Again, this is not the point of RAW files.

Stock: https://imageupload.io/i/1DKUvM7ldP
Expert: https://imageupload.io/i/1DKUvM7ldP

  • Alpha

ToneTheBone925, 24 Nov 2021I can't wait for the Sony Xperia Pro I.....I love that phone, has almost everything I need and more. But my 1iii is chugging along just fine..its still new to replace ;D

CivilizedEntity, 25 Nov 2021Bottom line, it's not pure RAW. It has heavy noise pro... moreBut won't that result in worse looking images in RAW, at least initially?
We all know how JPG stacks multiple images just to get a light HDR effect mostly all the time.

And how do you do RAW with stacking? Is there a way?

CivilizedEntity, 25 Nov 2021Bottom line, it's not pure RAW. It has heavy noise pro... more"It has heavy noise processing"
From what I could gather, no, it doesn't any processing baked into the file.

"that is not what enthusiasts are looking for"
But it drastically improves the signal-to-noise ratio and post-editing flexibility, making it much more suitable for scenes involving static objects or landscapes. The app also allows you to shoot single-frame RAWs, if that's your preference.

"The final DNG is worse than the stock camera JPEG"
I don't what you mean by "worse", but did you test out the app yourself?

  • CivilizedEntity

Bottom line, it's not pure RAW. It has heavy noise processing. The app is stacking multiple raws to get the final result but that is not what enthusiasts are looking for. The final DNG is worse than the stock camera JPEG. We need pure RAW for the 108 sensor, no gimmicks and raw for all other lenses, no stacking, no processing, no nothing. Come on, Samsung...

Nick Tegrataker, 25 Nov 2021Got it, that's definitely great to hear. Thanks for le... moreThat does seem likely considering the timing.

Duck of death, 25 Nov 2021I have already written here that the Korean information sta... moreGot it, that's definitely great to hear. Thanks for letting me know.
Hopefully S22 series will have this feature baked into the camera app right out of the box.

Nick Tegrataker, 25 Nov 2021I agree. It's a beta feature, so it's quite natur... moreI have already written here that the Korean information states that this beta is separate because it is a beta. It will be integrated into the camera app once they're done ironing out all the kinks.

SuuperBaka, 25 Nov 2021"Technically it is done by the hardware, but does it m... moreAgain, a 108MP sensor is set up to work like a 12MP sensor. They just give you the option to run it 108MP for the reason I've said. This is designed to works as binned sensor. Just like your red, green and blue sub pixels are binned into one pixel on the image. The colour sub pixels adds up to one visible colour, the binned pixels adds up to one less flawed bigger pixels. You know, the same way you do super sampling on your PC. Clear out the noise by weeding out the flaws with maths.
So, the RAW image info is 12MP.

  • Anonymous

Anonymous, 24 Nov 2021Xperia 1ii with two photo apps = " Why this? So unnec... moreYou either have lots of stocks in Sony or are just a silly fanboy.

Anonymous, 24 Nov 2021Processed raw, not real raw. Pixel's HDR+ RAW does not have any post-processing baked in.

Duck of death, 24 Nov 2021Someone's desperately trying to find something to whin... moreI agree. It's a beta feature, so it's quite natural that it's rolled out in a way that it will not directly affect the functionality or stability of the stock camera app.

With that said, it would make a lot more sense for Samsung to port the entire set of features into the app as soon as the testing phase is over.

SuuperBaka, 24 Nov 2021"The 108MP sensor is working like a multi sub-pixel se... moreBinning on QB sensors is done at the sensor level, right when the pixels are read out.

Anonymous, 24 Nov 2021You can by software disable the phase detection AF and rely... moreFun fact - disabling PDAF in software doesn't magically turn those half-shielded pixels that can be only used for detecting phase differences into regular pixels. So the information still needs to be interpolated from neighboring pixels, which will cause the banding.

"Panasonic S1 uses imx410"
Source, please. As always.

Anonymous, 24 Nov 2021"Then there's optical image stabilization. Only t... more"Not helps a bit"
Given how much less effective OIS generally was on a phone camera back in 2013 (Think about it, it's literally an 8-year-old article - things have changed a lot since then) and how G2 set the shutter speed way too long in low light which resulted in blurred shots in their studio, I don't disagree with the conclusion GSMArena made AT THAT TIME through their own testing.

"OIS is useless for video"
Hybrid stabilisation is always superior to pure EIS - there are fewer pixels to be wasted to achieve the same level of stabilisation since OIS stabilises the footage to some extent before EIS does its job by cropping each frame. This is one of the reasons why Google decided to use OIS on Pixel 2 even if it meant that a smaller sensor had to be used.

  • AnonF-1013367

SuuperBaka, 25 Nov 2021"Technically it is done by the hardware, but does it m... moreI know the disadvantages, can you tell be about the adventages?